OFFHOLLYWOOD DRAGON R3Ds & MORE

[Justin O'Neill]

My logic for this is simple - the histogram that served us so well with the MX is just to limited for Dragon IMO. And your brain will always yank you to the right because you are just not use to so much room in the highlights.

Totally agree. I was so confused when we shot with the Dragon at REDUCATION because switching between RAW view and what I saw on the LCD was so drastically different. I'm guessing Dragon Color/Dragon Gamma will fix this though.

 

[Niko Pueringer]

Those shots have pretty janky focus and camera movement (it was freeeeeezing outside and we were tired) - I will post some solid 6K motion R3Ds of NYC night exteriors on Monday so you can evaluate.

Thanks Mark! Looking forward to it.

 

[Mark L. Pederson]

Totally agree. I was so confused when we shot with the Dragon at REDUCATION because switching between RAW view and what I saw on the LCD was so drastically different. I'm guessing Dragon Color/Dragon Gamma will fix this though.

Well ... herein lies the crux.

When you shoot 35mm film you don't set your exposure based on the monitor from the video tap. I know it's not the same thing here ... but more and more ... I think with Dragon you need to stop thinking video and start thinking FILM.

I really think RAW false color will serve much better than histogram on the Dragon for assisting in exposure selection.

Better yet ... get your light meter out and think like film.

 

[Martin Stevens]

So......thinking like film, how would you rate the Dragon, Mark?

Would you set your light meter to 2000 ASA to protect highlights with high contrast scenes?

And at what ISO do you see the Dragon having equal stops above and below middle gray?

 

[Mark L. Pederson]

So......thinking like film, how would you rate the Dragon, Mark?

Would you set your light meter to 2000 ASA to protect highlights with high contrast scenes?

And at what ISO do you see the Dragon having equal stops above and below middle gray?

I really like rating at 800 with opening a full stop over incident reading for skin tone.

You certainly can shoot an entire movie rating at ISO 1280 and it will 100% look better than a movie shot on MX rated at ISO 640. But so far - 800 would be my primary choice in Dragon. And for night scenes I'd rate 1280 and push more in post if I had no choice. But I'm still learning

As far as equal stops above and below middle gray - I would need to test that - it's not something that matters too much to me.

 

[Zakaree Sandberg]

would love for someone to post the same shots, same lens, same lighting.. of dragon and MX side by side

 

[Mark L. Pederson]

would love for someone to post the same shots, same lens, same lighting.. of dragon and MX side by side

I don't even want to shoot the MX anymore at all.

I had the same reaction when the MX sensor came out - I was over the M in a heartbeat. No turning back.

But sure ... I can give you some side-by-side and it will demonstrate SOME differences - and you can find the other differences when manipulating the RAW files from each sensor - but Dragon destroys the MX and you have so much room to play and shape the image to your personal taste.

 

[Russ Fill]

Hey Mark just I know your in the city but after seeing the match test, Im really wondering what full moon light would look like.
Anyone???

 

[Martin Stevens]

I really like rating at 800 with opening a full stop over incident reading for skin tone.

Mark, wouldn't that really in effect be the same as shooting at ISO 400 and then not opening up a stop?
The ISO is after all just metadata.

 

[Jamon Lewis]

Thanks for the .R3Ds Mark, this surf is amazing

 

[BRANDON JAMESON]

The daylight image is AMAZING!!!

So very filmic.

GO, DRAGON!!!

 

[Gunleik Groven]

Your Logic implies some of the same as mine, and what Mark Toia has mentioned..

To have a similar highlight protection as with the MX, you could shoot in the 400 or even lower range. Thus exposing a stop or more higher. That way you get more on both sides of the exposure and the Dragon really shines.

Viewing "RAW" is basically viewing at 320.
You still have some headroom there.

The histogram has allways been post metadata. So it is an even worse indicator than it was on the MX...

But it worked better there because you basically needed thhat headroom for non-daylight shots.

Dragon is Different to expose for.

Which is what we all wanted. More DR, right?
That means; Change exposure practice for that.

Love this. Mark

THX

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

Nice!!!

 

[Mark L. Pederson]

Mark, wouldn't that really in effect be the same as shooting at ISO 400 and then not opening up a stop?
The ISO is after all just metadata.

That would really depend on how you use your light meter - IMO, it's not the same as "rating at 400" - because, depending on the skin tone of the subject, I would typically open up a bit over an incident reading. I've watched a lot of cinematographers work with light meters - and almost all of the time they take the reading - and then do a "magical calculation" based on their experience with that specific film stock or sensor - (doing an exposure compensation - EC - in their heads) before instructing AC on what stop to set the lens at.

So anyone can learn how to take a reading with a spot or incident reading - but what you do with that number - the EC you apply to that reading before setting the iris is the magic. Or lack thereof

You need to find your own EC for the Dragon sensor based on your own personal testing, and manipulation of the RAW files - since you now can control the labs processing - in order to achieve what you subjectively determine is the image you are after given the lighting and environmental controls or lack thereof.

Dragon is really making me want to promote the "basics" of photography and exposure again - because it is REALLY like shooting motion picture film to me with respect to dynamic range - and because I think the younger generation that has come up with advanced digital cameras and histograms, WYSIWYG monitors, etc. has been able to shoot content with reasonably good results without a solid understanding of the fundamentals.

Of course I know that there are all levels of experience and skill levels in the folks that read and post REDUSER and there are guys on this forum who are way more qualified to discuss the nuances of setting exposure - but for me it's all about having a solid grasp of the fundamentals. And it never hurts to brush up on them.

Here's a video about exposing "Using a Light Meter for Better Portraits" that does a GREAT job IMO of covering a lot of fundamentals -

http://vimeo.com/74476335

The great news is that Dragon gives you a monster canvas and a monster set of paint brushes - so it's really fun to paint.

 

[Martin Stevens]

Thanks Mark for the nice reply.

I love your comments on EC. I just wish that Red posted a "white paper" on the Dragon Sensor
that answered all the tech questions like Kodak does with Film Stock.

 

[Will Keir]

Mark,

Thanks for making these R3Ds available to the community, much appreciated from all of us!

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

Offhollywood's sample Dragon R3Ds using my favourite Final Cut Pro X plug in from Pixel Film Studios

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

Offhollywood's samples of Dragon R3Ds using my favourite Final Cut Pro X plug in from Pixel Film Studios

Below are several variants using PFS's DJ Light Leak.

 

[Mark L. Pederson]

Pieter Henket & Loic Maes are shooting a crazy Dragon test at OFFHOLLYWOOD right now - they are just getting started - I grabbed a random selection of R3D frames from their very first mag and updated the 1st page on this thread with the download link - go grab 'em - grade 'em and post 'em - LOTS and LOTS more coming

 

[Savva Svet]

Pieter Henket & Loic Maes are shooting a crazy Dragon test at OFFHOLLYWOOD right now - they are just getting started - I grabbed a random selection of R3D frames from their very first mag and updated the 1st page on this thread with the download link - go grab 'em - grade 'em and post 'em - LOTS and LOTS more coming

Hey Mark,

Folder seems to be empty….