OBAMA thread!!!

[Medavoym]

Jeff,

I totally agree with banning that individual... his comments crossed many lines. I also agree with deleting his posts - racial bigotry shouldn't be tolerated here or anywhere else.

However, as far as the rules of conduct are concerned, deleting whole threads is not mentioned anywhere. Especially at #3 above.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Fair enough, objection noted. But at this time, I'm not going to second-guess one of the other moderators.

 

[Finner]

3. We will delete posts that would get you punched in the nose if you were to say the same thing in the "real" world.

Take a look at #3 on that list. If g3nov3s3 were to say what he said in the 'real world', in the presence of myself or many of my fellow Americans. He would have received a lot worse than a punch in the nose.

Have you even read some of the posts I made in the past Jeff? If rule 3 was followed to the letter of the law 98% of my posts would be deleted.

 

[Nick Wolf]

Why sow seeds of discontent? Its obvious people want the thread back...A petty matter has now become a symbolic tug of war.

If its a clash of wills at play here for its own sake then its all about power and considering this moment in History I personally think the people should decide.

It was beautiful how the majority of the community rose up no matter which side they voted for and made an explicit point that RACE IS NOT AN ISSUE ANY LONGER and that it is a matter of competence and other factors...Not Color!!!

Those reactions are a testament and should be left as an example of how Idiocy will be met here.


DogDay.

 

[Roberto B]

That is not why I banned him. Some of us draw the line at racial slurs and insults. This is what led to the other thread turning into a mess and it was removed.

Let's take a minute and re-visit the rules of conduct around here...


Take a look at #3 on that list. If g3nov3s3 were to say what he said in the 'real world', in the presence of myself or many of my fellow Americans. He would have received a lot worse than a punch in the nose.

ehehehehehe.. perfect.. 100% agreed.

and not only your/our fellow americans.. irate:

 

[Finner]

It was beautiful how the majority of the community rose up no matter which side they voted for and made an explicit point that RACE IS NOT AN ISSUE ANY LONGER and that it is a matter of competence and other factors...Not Color!!!

Exactly,

In the wise words of Nigel Powers. "There's only two things I hate in this world. People who are intolerant of other people's cultures and the Dutch."

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Have you even read some of the posts I made in the past Jeff? If rule 3 was followed to the letter of the law 98% of my posts would be deleted.

Daren, that may be true.. Actually it is true. But like all "laws", interpretation is subjective in the eyes of those who enforce them. This obviously varies based on who is involved and on the circumstances. For what it's worth, many of us around here enjoy your comments, even the crude ones. You have never lowered yourself to racial slurs or racist insults.

I'm inclined to agree with the majority here that removing the entire thread was probably over the top. OTOH, I fully respect Mark's judgement and decision and leave it up to him or Jarred to reinstate the thread, if they so choose. Personally, and this is from a moderator point of view, I'm perfectly happy with the thread being gone. I'm also looking forward to this thread being locked and I bet it will happen in the not too distant future, not necessarily by me.

The continuous "free speech" rhetoric gets tiresome and it comes up every time any thread (or even some individual posts) are edited, deleted or even just moved. The point is, free speech is a fine thing, when used in moderation and this is not an open free-for-all venue. It is a privately owned and operated community for discussing all things pertaining to RED Digital Cinema. Some topics of discussion do not belong here, not even in the "off topic" forum area.

 

[David Mullen ASC]

I think it is proper to delete a particularly or unusually offensive post rather than have it temporarily immortalized (a contradictory term, I know) on the internet - that gives the offensive post, perhaps made on a whim, far too much significance and sours the tone of the site for those who pass by the post when visiting the site.

This is a privately-owned, moderated site so notions of free speech have to take that into account. Anyway, there are so many other sites where people can post all sorts of offensive comments as often as they wish.

 

[number6]

Exactly,

In the wise words of Nigel Powers. "There's only two things I hate in this world. People who are intolerant of other people's cultures and the Dutch."

Finner, I will defend the right for you to say what you said to the death (yours, not mine) 'CAUSE IT'S FUNNY!

 

[Steve Gibby]

When RED User was first launched way beck in December 2005, and for about the first five months of 2006, I was a moderator here until I got too dang busy with real world work. FWIW if those type of racial bigot comments were made on a RED User thread when I was moderating this board, I would have taken the exact same course of action that Offhollywood (Mark) took, and affirmed it the same way the other moderators, Jeff and David have.

We're a big, diverse, worldwide family here on RED User - and let's keep this a place of respect, sharing, and knowledge exchange.

Two thoughts about thinking before you post:

"When you speak you learn nothing. But when you listen, you learn what others know".

And a further thought on that:

"It is better to remain silent and thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt"

----------------------

As for Finner, well, Finner is Finner. The dude is funny - and he's right, a lot of his posts probably do violate Rule #3 of the RU Rules of Conduct! Then again, though he may bash entire sections of the motion media industry in a tongue in cheek way, he has never stooped to racial slurs and personal insults. Me and him rarely agree on some subjects - but we're still friends and we have mutual respect for each other. That's the way this board should work when people disagree - talk about it, present your views, and remember to still give respect to others.

 

[George A.]

The thing is... let's suppose EPIC gets announced... people start talking about it excitedly... the thread goes on for 20 pages... some nut logs in and says something stupid or racist or whatever...

Do you delete the entire thread, along with all the other responsible comments (99%)?... That is the question. It's not about free speech on reduser.

 

[Steve Gibby]

A tech-laden thread on Epic and an Off Topic thread on politics are two very different situations. In the case of the Epic thread you described, yes, as a moderator I would simply delete the offensive troll posts. But in the case of a political thread that inevitably would fuel hard feelings, when it got out of hand I'd treat it just as Offhollywood did.

 

[Nick Wolf]

Its called throwing the baby out with the bath water...Use white out no need to shred.

Unless of course there is something else in there that gets conveniently squashed at the same time...

The guy is banned, delete his remarks, and let the other spontaneous constructive contributions about this incredible moment in history remain untampered.

Its not about freedom of speech its about hidden agendas. Call a spade a spade, its not about the racial slur! Because that could have been dealt with in another way=without erasing everything else that was interesting and pertinent to the conversation.


DogDay.

 

[10s]

Free Speech: The Ancient Greeks championed freedom of speech. On their tiny rocky islands they traded with all sorts of cultures with differing politics and Gods, and from this clash of culture came the traditions of Western civilization. The Greek tradition gave us philosophy, democracy, science, art, mathematics and so on. All of this resulted from unbridled, and yes, it was passionate at times, speech.


Racial Slurs: Last year I took some time away from teaching college and helped my 26 year old son shoot a RAP video. It was interesting & fun helping out and working with the artists and their community of friends, but all I heard every five seconds on set was a racial slur, from one participant to another. They were really enjoying themselves slurring each other. I noticed it was the norm for how they talk to one another, whether I was there or not. For me it was an eye opener. I thought about this for a while. Sometimes I think this sensitivity thing we have is overblown, it appears as some sort of strange white problem about trying to be moral or at least trying to appear moral, I'm not quite sure yet. The folks on the RAP set had no problems at all speaking freely -- but they were also well armed, at one point the cops appeared, but just drove on by without stopping. What's this have to do with this thread? I don't know, other than sometimes we make mountains out of mole hills and we might want to consider that each of us here do not come from the same micro culture/communities nor do we share the same standards of communication. I certainly didn't with the Rappers but I still enjoyed them as people.

OBAMA: As an American, I hope Obama can help this country and the rest of the world get back to good old fashion free market Capitalism, just like the folks at RED have been practicing, no government hand outs or irrational regulations. May the best succeed so the rest of us can profit from their productive inventiveness and in return, we can reward them with our hard earned dollars. May those that create worthless products (think many on Wall Street) find employment for their talents elsewhere and may government keep their nose out of the affairs of free people as the founders intended. My fear is that Obama is deeply schooled in Socialism and will take this country down this dead end road, the same road the rest of the world abandoned a while ago. He said all we need is hope, I agree, I hope he's wise enough to keep the American Experiment alive.

 

[Mark L. Pederson]

I think it is proper to delete a particularly or unusually offensive post rather than have it temporarily immortalized (a contradictory term, I know) on the internet - that gives the offensive post, perhaps made on a whim, far too much significance and sours the tone of the site for those who pass by the post when visiting the site.

This is a privately-owned, moderated site so notions of free speech have to take that into account. Anyway, there are so many other sites where people can post all sorts of offensive comments as often as they wish.

Thanks for this post David.

 

[Dominic Cochran]

Thanks for this post David.

Yes, but unfortunately it's at risk of being deleted if some degenerate decides to try to derail an otherwise good thread.

 

[Dj Joofa]

I would have taken the exact same course of action that Offhollywood (Mark) took, and affirmed it the same way the other moderators, Jeff and David have.

That is not the best approach IMHO. It is not easy to handle power and moderators have to exercise restraint, since any abrupt action is also taken as "insult to the intelligence" of the other forum members as they feel "left out."

As this forum allows users to edit their comments, the moderator should have followed this sequence in my opinion:

(1) Talked to the user privately (using pm) and encouraged the user to either edit, or delete the comments,
(2) If the user persisted, then a warning issued to the user (privately) that their comments will be purged, shortly,
(3) If the user still persisted, then the comments purged, with moderators name and reason why it was done, substituted instead. All comments by other forum members remained.
(4) A formal appeal to the other members to realize that this option was done as a last recourse after exhausting other options.

This forum should also allow moderators to be rated on the exercise of their discretionary powers. Gosh, why do they rate TAs and profs at the universities? -- so that self reflection and criticism makes one a better judge in the exercise of power.

 

[Joe D'Arcym]

Mark I support your decision to delete the thread. As Gibby stated, it was a conflict about politics not about which lense or workflow is superior etc.
You can't underestimate the weight of a racial slur on an international forum.

 

[Medavoym]

Thanks for this post David.

Yes, but unfortunately it's at risk of being deleted if some degenerate decides to try to derail an otherwise good thread.

Post of the day.

Mark I support your decision to delete the thread. As Gibby stated, it was a conflict about politics not about which lense or workflow is superior etc.
You can't underestimate the weight of a racial slur on an international forum.

I agree with the second part. Those racial posts should have been deleted - no question about that! About the first part of your statement --

First - the thread was NOT a conflict about politics (just one racist guy posting a few racist comments while all the other posters behaved very nicely)
Second - the thread was in the "Off Topic" section, where generally nobody discusses lenses or workflows. That's why it's called "Off Topic".

 

[Brook Willard]

You guys are ridiculous.