November 30th Announcement Feedback

[D Fuller]

GB vs gb

GB vs gb

Ok so then it's not truely an entire gb per second?

First: if you don't know this, it's important to know the difference between gb (gigabit) and GB (gigabyte). 1 gb is a billion bits; 1 GB is a billion bytes, or 8 billion bits. (Some will argue that's not a precise number, but it's close enough to understand what's going on.)

Then there's network overhead. Network data transfer is more complicated than just running data in one direction. There is error-checking and a bunch of stuff that eat away at bandwidth. So in the real world, a good Gigabit transfer speed is about 2 Gigabytes per minute. Not bad, considering I can't get that out of a firewire 800 drive on the best days, but nowhere near the "perfect world" theoretical limits. And for the record you don't even want to know how slow a usb drive is by comparison.

 

[D Fuller]

The actual storage on board the camera is unlikely to support 1gb/s read speed for transfers that max out the Gigabit Ethernet. Much more likely it will be significantly slower - although the SSD option may have this kind of performance (I don't know much about SSD speeds yet)

Quentin, the Red Drives will easily keep up with a Gigabit connection. They are SATA drives, in RAID 0 to a SATA connection. Their read speeds should exceed (but not by much) the theoretical limit of the GigE connection. SSD drives should beat it by about 400%.

 

[Steven Caesare]

First: if you don't know this, it's important to know the difference between gb (gigabit) and GB (gigabyte). 1 gb is a billion bits; 1 GB is a billion bytes, or 8 billion bits. (Some will argue that's not a precise number, but it's close enough to understand what's going on.)

Then there's network overhead. Network data transfer is more complicated than just running data in one direction. There is error-checking and a bunch of stuff that eat away at bandwidth. So in the real world, a good Gigabit transfer speed is about 2 Gigabytes per minute. Not bad, considering I can't get that out of a firewire 800 drive on the best days, but nowhere near the "perfect world" theoretical limits. And for the record you don't even want to know how slow a usb drive is by comparison.

David is correct here about real-world speeds, it's good info to use as a reality check.

I'll be pedantic and point out, however, that the correct abbrebiation for gigabit is Gb.

The G for giga-, M for mega-, and K for kilo- is always capitalized. The second letter is indeed upper or lower case for byte or bit, repesctively.

-sc

 

[Nik Harper]

First: if you don't know this, it's important to know the difference between gb (gigabit) and GB (gigabyte). 1 gb is a billion bits; 1 GB is a billion bytes, or 8 billion bits. (Some will argue that's not a precise number, but it's close enough to understand what's going on.)

Then there's network overhead. Network data transfer is more complicated than just running data in one direction. There is error-checking and a bunch of stuff that eat away at bandwidth. So in the real world, a good Gigabit transfer speed is about 2 Gigabytes per minute. Not bad, considering I can't get that out of a firewire 800 drive on the best days, but nowhere near the "perfect world" theoretical limits. And for the record you don't even want to know how slow a usb drive is by comparison.

Oh my god! I'm such an idiot, I totally didn't notice that this entire time! I thought that sounded way too fast for reality!

But yes I'll take 2 gigabytes per minute anyday! <--- and that is prettyclose to the speed we can get out if the gigE connection?

Sorry that was the last question guys!

 

[D Fuller]

Oh my god! I'm such an idiot, I totally didn't notice that this entire time! I thought that sounded way too fast for reality!

But yes I'll take 2 gigabytes per minute anyday! <--- and that is prettyclose to the speed we can get out if the gigE connection?

No worries. Yes, I get that speed pretty consistently. I use Macs with very good built-in GigE capabilities, I write to fast SATA hard drives or a raid, and I have a very fast switch (like a router, but usually a bit faster--doesn't have to be expensive, one of mine cost just about $70). And good-quality Cat-5E cables are important, and not very expensive either.

 

[Nik Harper]

No worries. Yes, I get that speed pretty consistently. I use Macs with very good built-in GigE capabilities, I write to fast SATA hard drives or a raid, and I have a very fast switch (like a router, but usually a bit faster--doesn't have to be expensive, one of mine cost just about $70). And good-quality Cat-5E cables are important, and not very expensive either.

Yeah I've got a mac as well. I'm about to buy one of those harddrive towers that uses internal harddrives but obviously turns them into external. Aaaaanyways. Thanks for the help understanding.

I'm hoping they announce prices of the different rigs soon, such as the "gunner"

 

[Garik]

SCHEDULE

Given that current delay in the ASIC development, we now see the following schedule.

Remember.. the goal posts move everyday. Sometimes they go backwards, sometimes they leap forward. The two things left are the ASIC and firmware. It took us 2 years to get where we are now, another couple of extra months to get where we need to go for a solid, new feature firmware for the new cameras. That is one of the main reasons for the Tattoo program, which will be extremely limited in numbers.

Tattoo- early 2010
EPIC S35 Stage 2- NAB 2010 (or shortly after)
EPIC S35 Stage 3 & 4- pre-summer 2010

Scarlet 2/3" (both models)- May-June 2010
Scarlet S35- Summer 2010

This presupposes that there are no other major surprises.....

EPIC FF35 - ???

 

[Chris Kenny]

To clarify on the earlier points about plugging directly into a computer, essentially all gigabit interfaces (including the built-in ports on all Intel Macs) will detect when they're plugged directly into another device (rather than a switch) and will configure themselves automatically. There's not much call for crossover cables anymore.

 

[Steven Caesare]

To clarify on the earlier points about plugging directly into a computer, essentially all gigabit interfaces (including the built-in ports on all Intel Macs) will detect when they're plugged directly into another device (rather than a switch) and will configure themselves automatically. There's not much call for crossover cables anymore.

In theory, yes. And most of my server grade stuff does.

But I've run across several that don't, and most of them are consumer grade interfaces.

-sc

 

[Scott Watts]

How about a C-mount?

 

[paulherrin]

Framerate & Light

Framerate & Light

I know what you are saying about the tone mapping... But let me give you something to think about. I believe the slow motion (faster frame rates) requires MORE light because the sensor photosites get much less light in 120 frames per second than when shooting 24 frames per second.

I am sure David Mullen could elaborate a bit more on this. His article about shooting with the Phantom at 1000 frames per second mentioned his need for a lot more light to capture a "dark" type of scene.

Basically, motion issues aside, you will still run into other tech issues trying to get HDR motion.

Slow motion (higher framerates) always requires more light due to the shortened amount of available shutter time. which is why you always have to do a 180 degree shutter. for example. if you are shooting 24fps you need a shutter at least 48, or for 120fps a shutter speed of 240. This is just how overcranking and the camera works. So yes, typically, you need a bit more light, because the sensor's photosites have less opportunity to feed on the light.

They are just trying to grab some for each frame as best they can. It's a bit like trying to pass your hand under a quick drip without getting hit. And thus, Shawshank Redemption. haha. But seriously, this is nothing new - just a fact of overcranking that you will need fast shutter speeds and lots-o-light.

Think if you're capturing 1000 frames in a second. That means your shutter speed must be 2000. That's pretty dang quick, which means you are just going to need a whooooooole bunch of light for your scene.

As I ponder it more, I don't see how that kind of route of alternate frames could really work. Yes, in some situations it might yield results - but those are really the situations where you could simply bracket and shoot motion control or whatever anyways...

I really think the only other options are doing whatever Arri has done to trick the camera a little bit into capturing a wider range, or as I've suggested using the latitude of the RAW data at seperate exposures, or using a beamsplitter mirror rig with two cameras capturing the exact same image, with exactly the same aperture and shutter, except one using an ND filter.

Again, if anyone has some footage lying around, just a couple seconds that they could bake out as DPX files or whatever, at three seperate exposures - one accurate, one lower, and one higher - I'd be happy to run some tests and publish the results/workflow. PM me if you like.

 

[CurtisHight]

Parsing through the previous posts I learned that upgrades to the Scarlet Fixed Lens 8x Zoom package are under discussion. I'm looking at the storage options and realizing that for my purposes CF cards will be sufficiently cumbersome that the SSD option is a necessary threshold for me to cross whether I reach it as an upgrade or in redundancy. (I'm also hoping for Light Peak to succeed as a technology, and in the market, as I consider my future data storage requirements.)

The Red team has pointed out that they will have balanced audio running over 3.5 mm stereo connectors. I trust them to have weighed the dynamics, but I'm a little wistful about the absence on the brain of mini-XLR or 1/4-inch TRS connectors for audio input and 1/4-inch TRS connectors for monitoring, cheerfully wishing for the best long term durability, and to alleviate the cumbersome cable play brought about by working with a mixed group of 3.5 mm and 1/4-inch audio connectors.

My hope for item #21 is: 3-axis internal motion sensor calculates camera level, displaying it as an overlay on the monitor!

 

[paulherrin]

#21

#21

My hope for item #21 is: 3-axis internal motion sensor calculates camera level, displaying it as an overlay on the monitor!

sounds cool.... but you can do that with an iphone...

i think 21 is going to be much more special.

 

[Joseph Ward]

Will the Redmote be able to view and listen to a live feed?

 

[Dan Riordan]

These specs are really impressive and i'm super excited for the release. But does anybody else see a hole in the market right now for a sub $4k camera with a full frame or dx/aps-c sized sensor? I imagine it would take a hit in resolution and probably max out at HD (or possibly 2K) resolution and maybe a setting for 60fps or 48fps. I rarely need more than HD resolution as I'm always finishing in HD anyway. 90% of my friends projects never need more than HD resolution and a downres from 2k looks fantastic.

And nothing brings the sexy like a full frame or DX/APS-C sensor. 2/3 just doesn't bring the sexy, it brings the news program or TV vibe. If Nikon and Canon could actually produce quality HD video (no jello) on their D-SLR's it would be a no brainer for me. I'm just thinking if I'm sitting down with a client do they pick the sexy or the technically perfect but sexless image? I think we know the answer. I"m wondering if the 2/3" will be DOA by the time it hits the markets. Certainly all this D-SLR footage is making it look that way.

$8k-$10K seems like a fantastic price for the resolution and sensor size, but it's resolution I'll rarely need. And if I do need it I'll rent an epic. I'm just saying it seems like there is a huge market for an affordable camera (with a FF or DX/APS-C sensor) with stable video (no jello) maxing out at HD or 2K resolution. Not sure how much a drop in resolution equals a drop in price.

 

[Jarred Land]

Will the Redmote be able to view and listen to a live feed?

nope

 

[Cüneyt Kaya]

nope

the redmode pro?

i hate those wireless watchman

 

[paulherrin]

Scarlet Frame Overlay Feature

Scarlet Frame Overlay Feature

I would really like to see some kind of frame overlay feature on the Scarlet... This would be profoundly useful for effects work, or anytime you need to do some matching. If it's not too much to ask, I'd like to.

Here's a thread with a poll I just started... http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=38645

I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts on this, and I'd especially love it if we could get this ability on our cameras!

 

[Gabriel Scindian]

This is why I love technology, the advancements, and RED nit only for their vision but because of their innovation.

Sony F23
Effective Pixels 1920 x 1080 pixels
Lens Mount Sony bayonet mount (B4)
Imager 2/3" CCD
Audio Input XLR-3-31 type (Female)
line/mic/mic +48 V selectable (via supplied interface module)
Variable Frame-rate in 1fps increments over and under cranking/1fps to 30fps @ 4:4:4 mode.

Starting @ $150,000.00 U.S. List Price

RED Scarlet 2/3
Effective Pixels 3k pixels
Lens Mount Multiple (Fixed, Canon, Nikon, PL, etc)
Imager 2/3" cmos
Audio Input 2 independent line/mic/mic channels +48 V Phantom Power / 24 48khz Digitized
Variable Frame-rate in 1fps to 120fps RAW.

Starting @ $2700.00 U.S. List Price

 

[Stuart English]

2/3" optics

2/3" optics

2/3 just doesn't bring the sexy, it brings the news program or TV vibe.

I wouldn't be telling that to a DP who shoots on an F-900 or Varicam or F-23 or Genesis.....

In fact I'd be surprised if most news was shot on 2/3" anymore, more likely 1/2" or 1/3".