Nov. 3rd take 2...

[David Rasberry]

I stay corrected. But, whether pixel size is 2.1 microns or 2.3 microns, it makes little difference to the point I was making.



As in zero, because there aren't many lenses that can defy laws of physics. Diffraction limit is diffraction limit. At f/2.0 and theoretical pixel size of 2 microns the MTF is less than 10% for red wavelengths and not much more for blue wawelengths.

Precisely put. No point in a 4k 2/3" camera.

 

[Phil Anderson]

Count me in as well as one who is hoping for a 2/3" fixed as well. I need a do-all camera for docs, spots, ENG, location, event, maybe an indie film. If I am going to shoot a serious, professional level indie film, I'll rent an Epic. If I somehow get into filmmaking full-time, then I'll save for an Epic-S when it's out. For everything else, there's Scarlet. And I think there's a large market for this.

I also think it makes the most sense that Red will sell what we last concretely heard they will sell, without reading between any lines. I know some have disagreed with me, but I see on Nov 3:

• Scarlet Fixed, 2/3", 3k. Probably in more than one package. Fairly bare for less than $7k, a fuller package for more like $10k.
• Epic-M at Stage 3, or even Stage 4.
• Announcements, if not for immediate release, on Epic-S, Scarlet-I, RedRay/Projector, all of which may be able to order by EOY.
• Updated info on Dragon chip.

Specs won't be much different than what we already suspect, though likely will be sweeter on the firmware side of things. Perhaps even greater latitude, faster overcranking, etc. than previously announced.

I just don't see Red making large spec changes at this point, like making Scarlet 4k, or having all Scarlets have larger chips. Though I certainly could be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time.

 

[Paul Ellington]

HEY MR. JANNARD, trying to send you as message but your box if full. More info on Kodak and call me anytime

 

[Lawrence Bansbach]

I also think it makes the most sense that Red will sell what we last concretely heard they will sell, without reading between any lines. I know some have disagreed with me, but I see on Nov 3:

• Scarlet Fixed, 2/3", 3k. Probably in more than one package. Fairly bare for less than $7k, a fuller package for more like $10k.
• Epic-M at Stage 3, or even Stage 4.
• Announcements, if not for immediate release, on Epic-S, Scarlet-I, RedRay/Projector, all of which may be able to order by EOY.
• Updated info on Dragon chip.

Specs won't be much different than what we already suspect, though likely will be sweeter on the firmware side of things. Perhaps even greater latitude, faster overcranking, etc. than previously announced.

I just don't see Red making large spec changes at this point, like making Scarlet 4k, or having all Scarlets have larger chips. Though I certainly could be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time.

If Scarlet's specs are substantially the same as those Red published more than a year ago (or was it two years?), then why would Jim feel November 3 is any more significant than the day Red One or Epic was released? When he announced the November 3 announcement, he referred to "all the changes to Scarlet." That sounds fairly substantial to me. And if he's going to pit the Scarlet against Canon's new offering(s) (if indeed that's what he intends to do), either Canon won't announce a new 4K S35 camera that day (it could be a large-sensor 1080p model or a variant of the 4K "hairdryer" concept camera) or Red will. Or Jim is confident that a 3K 2/3-inch camera can hold its own against a 4K S35 camera.

 

[Bill Anderson]

I think Jim's 5K mantra is intact: keep in mind that many obstacles have to be cleared out of the way to facilitate a 5K future,
and that is one thing a 3K Scarlet will do. If 1080 were allowed to dig in deep and become ubiquitous, the 5K push might be seriously hindered.
But once the world has access to affordable and much superior 3K cameras like Scarlet, the path seems like a much smoother one.
Here's to Scarlet, the 1080 land-mine clearer. Or something like that. ( :

 

[Andrew Coleho]

I've been reading here for a long time but what spurred me into creating an account was something that I think may sound far-fetched to some of you but I personally believe will happen. With Jim making all these posts about surprises but at the same time dismissing the fact that the scarlet wont be better than the epic, I believe we will see a complete Scarlet package in the $3-5k range as originally announced by Red way back in the day.

Ted has always said around $6k give or take, I personally believe it will be even cheaper than that to make this launch truly amazing.

Red has maintained that it only produces professional gear, so a lot of people think that a consumer price point is out of the question. But I disagree, because I think Red has developed a professional camera and at a consumer price - that camera being the Scarlet which will soon be released.

A Scarlet that performs professionally with a consumer price tag will truly (red)volutionize the market, and I think that is what Red has up their sleeves.

Here's to hoping my $3-5k guess is right, because we know the Scarlet will be awesome no matter what the price. :beer:

 

[John Caballero]

The passing of time makes you wiser. What have we learned in the last 3 years about low cost digital filmammaking cameras? We have learned that it is possible to produce a pretty good camera with an APS sensor that mimicks the size of 35mm film. With 720p and 1080p codec that produce fairly good looking footage. And for as low as $900.00 for a DSLR body. We have learned that for less than $5000.00 you can get a dedicated video camera with large sensor and improved codec. We also know all about the Canon 5D. So we now have a clearer picture as to how much Scarlet, especially with a 2/3'' sensor, should cost. You can argue Redcode but that should not be enough to elevate the price by the thousands. With that said now Red is in the same situation as many of the big camera companies that produce high end digital film cameras. Do they protect that market by crippling the lower cost camera?

 

[Lawrence Bansbach]

I think Jim's 5K mantra is intact: keep in mind that many obstacles have to be cleared out of the way to facilitate a 5K future,
and that is one thing a 3K Scarlet will do. If 1080 were allowed to dig in deep and become ubiquitous, the 5K push might be seriously hindered.
But once the world has access to affordable and much superior 3K cameras like Scarlet, the path seems like a much smoother one.
Here's to Scarlet, the 1080 land-mine clearer. Or something like that. ( :

Only if Canon doesn't announce a 4K camera that costs $15K.

 

[Steven Hammer]

I would like to see the Scarlet have a multi-aspect sensor. If its 4x3 in aspect rather than 16x9 or 2x1, the megapixel count for fenceline purposes jumps up to 7MP. I don't know what kind of image circle the mini primes and fixed lens have, but if they can cover a 16 mm or super 16 mm sensor, at the pixel density originally specced, it could hit 4k (super 16 size).

Just speculation. I'd be more happy with the original spec at the original price than a better camera at twice the price, because I want to get into the Red system and I don't think I can make that happen at $11,000+.

More speculation... I wonder if the big surprise will be a really bare bones 3k offering at an irresistable price.

 

[Kip Kubin]

Don't understand how such old, and uncool, tech as 2/3rds chip can "crush" the industry.???

Scarlett will be S35...it has to be....or Red is about to take a giant step backwards.

 

[Bill Anderson]

Only if Canon doesn't announce a 4K camera that costs $15K.

Nope: that is exactly what one might hope for if one was trying to shake the 1080P world out of its slumber. In other words,
JIm is having an effect, and it is all good as far as his predictions of the future are concerned.

Of course, I'm painting Red in the most favorable light in this regard, but I don't think it is too much of a stretch.

 

[Aaron Kondziela]

The upside to being very busy shooting: November 3rd will seem to arrive sooner, and I'll have way less time to suffer with delightful anticipation.

The downside to being very busy shooting: I finally get back to RedUser, and I have a deluge of Recon to catch up on! My goodness.

This is the most exciting time I can remember in a long time... After watching Red since the beginning, and working with the Red One, the time finally is near that I'll be able to shoot Red whenever I want - because it'll be in my hands!! And I'll be part of the Red family in more than spirit, cheering on truly inspirational business models and methods.

Ooh ooh! Next product idea for Red!! A cranial interface, that pipes RedUser directly into your head! That way, we'll always be up to date on the latest awesomeness, and we'll be able to bolt all kinds of stuff to our (now badass-looking) head with 1/4x20 hardware

I love right now. Truly. GO RED!! I think I'll be coming to visit you guys soon.

 

[Bill Anderson]

And don't forget, Scarlet was announced quite some time ago, and the very thought of it, and knowing how capable Red is, should have been enough to send a chill down the spine of the most jaded CEO.
And then to top it all off for the time being, there is EPIC, and its very formidable expansion program.... .

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Go away for a couple of days and come back to pages of wild, and uninformed, speculation.

Haha, was there something different before you left?

 

[Lawrence Bansbach]

Nope: that is exactly what one might hope for if one was trying to shake the 1080P world out of its slumber. In other words,
JIm is having an effect, and it is all good as far as his predictions of the future are concerned.

Of course, I'm painting Red in the most favorable light in this regard, but I don't think it is too much of a stretch.

Yes, but my point was that a 3K camera won't do nearly as well against a 4K camera (particularly one priced at around $15K). A 3K camera will be perceived obsolescence rendered not obsolete but rather all but certain.

 

[Phil Anderson]

Don't understand how such old, and uncool, tech as 2/3rds chip can "crush" the industry.??? Scarlett will be S35...it has to be....

I don't really see it that way. I guess because I'm looking at it from a different industry.

For docs, much broadcasting, ENG, many commercial spots, location, etc. 2/3" is fine - desirable actually. A lot of us are used to lugging around large 2/3" cameras that shoot a compressed 1080p image, backed up by a smaller camcorder that's 1/3" chip, and often highly compressed image. This industry Scarlet may indeed crush.

The filmmaking industry, even indie films, even low-budget indie films, won't be crushed by Scarlet. Though I can see indie films shot on it, absolutely. The camera to crush that industry is Epic. The Epic-M for the biggest boys, X for the middle, and S for the independents and those on a tighter budget. The shoestring no-budget indies are still likely to be very happy shooting on DSLRs, and use other creative ways to get the most bang for their buck.

 

[Lee Brandt]

Don't understand how such old, and uncool, tech as 2/3rds chip can "crush" the industry.???

Scarlett will be S35...it has to be....or Red is about to take a giant step backwards.

Percisely. Red has been in the film camera market since inception. If they release a 2/3 run and gun camera, they will be changing directions into a different market. I hope they stay on the course the began with.

 

[Bill Anderson]

Yes, but my point was that a 3K camera won't do nearly as well against a 4K camera (particularly one priced at around $15K). A 3K camera will be perceived obsolescence rendered not obsolete but rather all but certain.

That's a big "if" at this point, but we don't have long to wait to find out. Making Scarlet obsolete on Nov 3rd, even with its older specs, is going to take some effort on Canon's part.

 

[Brian Boyer]

The Sony FS100 is a "Super 35mm Digital Motion Camcorder" that lists for $6,550 US. It has interchangeable lens capability and a "modular" design.

It was clearly released as a Scarlet killer, except the Scarlet was delayed and hasn't come out.

All this talk about what Canon might announce on Nov.3 and the Sony F3 at $16K and nobody seems to be paying attention to the FS100.

If Scarlet is going to crush the competition, the $6,550 FS100 is the camera and price point to beat. To say, "We crushed the competition at twice the price!" is pointless.

That's as good a reason as any to speculate at least one S35 Scarlet version. Don't you think?

Ted running around with a 2/3" Scarlet for this long could very well have been misdirection and subterfuge. Who knows how long they may have been working on a slightly bigger body (or same body as Epic) or any number of other changes?

 

[Phil Anderson]

Again, those are mostly filmmaking cameras. The FS100 mostly aimed at indie productions.

I don't think that's Scarlet's target buyer/industry. I really don't.