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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Nov 3rd Scarlet Prediction

No matter what, This is going to be the longest week of my life...
 
Joel Kaye said:
I'd bet against that. Jim said he didn't think RED would be out of backorder for a long time after the Nov 3rd announcement.

Consider Canon's recent DSLR announcement had a shipping date of March 2012. God knows what the lead time will actually be on all these new cameras. I'd also anticipate RED ONE and/or EPIC owners will get first crack at Scarlet.

I think a 3K S35mm Scarlet would have been a great way to segment the products.

Scarlet has to be S35mm. It'll probably be 4K as well. Something about it needs to keep from pulling sales away from EPIC.

I do think RED's proprietary SSD system, while cool, is so expensive it will lose sales to other systems. It's certainly part of the equation. If they'd sell SSD housings we could put our own cards in that would be cool. SSD's are so fast it's hard to imagine any of the good ones not keeping up with 36/MB per second that RED One used for typical recording. Perhaps RED only SSDs are required for anything over 24FPS. That's a decent compromise.
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I remember p2 cards being $999 for 16GB. And plenty paid for those.
 
FrankApollonio said:
Scarlet is listed as a pro camera... Maybe non union productions will let you slide by with a 2/3" sensor, but union projects 90% of the time are going to want a S35.
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I'm sure many of the 100,000+ members of IATSE will be very surprised to hear that, especially those working in live broadcasting, sports, and ENG. :sosp:
 
David Rasberry said:
Reds require sustained write to capacity speeds in the 90MB/sec range for maximum performance.
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But I'm not asking for maximum performance. I'm asking for minimum performance.

It would be great to be able to buy Scarlet, pick up a few CF cards and that's it.

I think many would get by fine with artifact free 2k in a RAW format. If you're doing corporate, educational or webfilms, this is in many cases fine.

I'm not talking about limiting the camera in any way, just that it would be cool if people who are OK with 2k @ standard frame rates would have a cheaper way to get started.
 
Erik Bien said:
I'm sure many of the 100,000+ members of IATSE will be very surprised to hear that, especially those working in live broadcasting, sports, and ENG. :sosp:
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IM talking about Film... none of those haha not at all
 
I just read the whole thread, sounds like a lot of arguing about speculation, seems like i shouldn't need to explain why that is silly.

Aside from that +1 for the S35 Scarlet option, Yet I'm not holding my breath. May need to look to Canon for that (if they can make a codec worth a damn.)
 
Joel Kaye said:
I'd bet against that. Jim said he didn't think RED would be out of backorder for a long time after the Nov 3rd announcement.

I do think RED's proprietary SSD system, while cool, is so expensive it will lose sales to other systems. It's certainly part of the equation. If they'd sell SSD housings we could put our own cards in that would be cool. SSD's are so fast it's hard to imagine any of the good ones not keeping up with 36/MB per second that RED One used for typical recording. Perhaps RED only SSDs are required for anything over 24FPS. That's a decent compromise.
Click to expand...

Perhaps... backorder on what, though? I seem to remember discussions from months ago about 'adult supervision' and 'no more backorders!' - 'in backorder for a long time' might just have been a little bit of marketing hyperbole on Jim's part :)

As for the SSD, the only proprietary bit of it is the physical form factor and interface, and they were done that way for a entirely necessary reason; robustness and reliability on the set and in the field, over tens of thousands of insertion/removal cycles in all kinds of conditions. Perhaps RED have just invented the new de facto industry standard for storage devices that all players will embrace in the digital cinema field (or any other field robust removable SSD storage is required)?! At least, I'd not be surprised to see a few third-party 'RED compatible' SSD devices, at competitive price points.

Remember Betacam vs. MII? It's all data, it's all data rates, as long as the performance is adequate there's no need to have multiple standards. RED got there first.

Yes, the RED SSD is pretty expensive and I've expressed concerns about this before. But even the RED SSD is subject to Moore's law, and it won't stay this expensive for long, with or without competition from other SSD manufacturers.

Mike
 
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Jeffrey Loewe said:
I remember p2 cards being $999 for 16GB. And plenty paid for those.
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I remember paying $1200 for 32MB ram. And plenty paid for those.

I also remember recently sticking a 16GB 6x SD Card in a Sony FS-100 and recording 90 minutes of interviews that looks about as nice as my RED at 1080P.

So who is Scarlet really targeted at? F3 users who wish they had 4k?

I think Pros and Renters will get EPIC as a rule.

I am starting to think a used RED One might be an amazing way to go for a lot of Indies. That camera still kills. If you can get it for less than a Scarlet it'll be hard to argue with.

Terry VerHaar said:
As noted by David immediately above your post, the sustained write speed necessary for REDCode recording is well in excess of the 36MB/sec data rate. I really don't think RED is trying to exploit anybody with this. They are just protecting the integrity of the whole camera system.
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RedCode 36 stands for what? RED ONE is only laying down 36MB per second in that mode. It's 9:1 Compression. Redcode 28 (12:1) used to be the standard. They never needed 90 sustained and the footage is terrific.

EPIC may NEED 90MB. But Scarlet?

From RED's pov it's a no brainer. Standardize on SSD. It'll work for a long time to come. I just wish they had a "roll your own" option cause most SSDs should be plenty fast. I wonder if any 3rd party will ever make a case. Or are RED SSDs chipped to ensure that doesn't happen?

Mike 'Fireman' Ross said:
Perhaps... backorder on what, though?
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More recently Jim noted the November 3rd Announcement and said they wouldn't be out of backorder. Since that date is a Scarlet announcement I'm guessing he means Scarlet. But it is just a guess.
 
Felix Steinhardt said:
Try the forum search.
It seems only RED CF cards are allowed to record more than 2k. A generic CF card would not be regognized as genuine and will be limited to 2k.
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NOT true. This has been done to death. My top-end Lexar CF cards work perfectly at all the same resolutions and frame rates genuine RED cards do, and others have reported this too. Do I need to post a video of them in use to prove it once and for all? Any CF card that is ***100%*** RED equivalent/compatible will work - because if it is TRULY equivalent the camera will NOT be able to distinguish it from a 'real' RED card!

Edit to add a detail agreeing with a previous poster: it's NOT the headline speed that matters, it's the sustained absolute uninterrupted data rate that's critical, and that depends on the memory controller and firmware inside the CF card... there are probably quite a few more standard CF cards that would work perfectly well, with appropriate firmware tweaks. I've half looked at that, but as a low priority; it turns out to be devilish hard to to do.

Mike
 
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Mike 'Fireman' Ross said:
NOT true. This has been done to death. My top-end Lexar CF cards work perfectly at all the same resolutions and frame rates genuine RED cards do, and others have reported this too. Do I need to post a video of them in use to prove it once and for all? Any CF card that is ***100%*** RED equivalent/compatible will work - because if it is TRULY equivalent the camera will NOT be able to distinguish it from a 'real' RED card!

Edit to add a detail agreeing with a previous poster: it's NOT the headline speed that matters, it's the sustained absolute uninterrupted data rate that's critical, and that depends on the memory controller and firmware inside the CF card... there are probably quite a few more standard CF cards that would work perfectly well, with appropriate firmware tweaks. I've half looked at that, but as a low priority; it turns out to be devilish hard to to do.

Mike
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Mike,

Do you have an Epic as well? Or are you sticking with your R1, and adding a Scarlet? Going forward for additional camera purchases do you see SSD or CF being what you go with?
 
Mike 'Fireman' Ross said:
NOT true. This has been done to death. My top-end Lexar CF cards work perfectly at all the same resolutions and frame rates genuine RED cards do, and others have reported this too. Do I need to post a video of them in use to prove it once and for all? Any CF card that is ***100%*** RED equivalent/compatible will work - because if it is TRULY equivalent the camera will NOT be able to distinguish it from a 'real' RED card!

Edit to add a detail agreeing with a previous poster: it's NOT the headline speed that matters, it's the sustained absolute uninterrupted data rate that's critical, and that depends on the memory controller and firmware inside the CF card... there are probably quite a few more standard CF cards that would work perfectly well, with appropriate firmware tweaks. I've half looked at that, but as a low priority; it turns out to be devilish hard to to do.

Mike
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Ok, that´s a game changer for me!

I found this information in two different threads
http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?63599-Lexar-8GB-400X-CF-cards&highlight=lexar
http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?64999-Alternative-Compact-Flash-cards&highlight=party (last post)

and in another thread I can´t find now, Ketch Rossi said, that thirs party cf cards no longer work (only 2k)


Which cards do work with your red? What about the Lexar 16gb 600x? Or do only the 8 GB 300x work?
If 3rd party cards are possible with scarlet, that would save me so much money I could spend in more batteries.

We need to know this before ordering
 
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People messing with my 2/3" Scarlet again. I'm all for RED adding to what has already being announced but man all I want is what we've been pushing for the last three years.

As far as I know nothing has been posted by RED to say that EPIC-S is no longer on the cards. Until a REDTEAM member says so it ain't so.
 
Joel Kaye said:
More recently Jim noted the November 3rd Announcement and said they wouldn't be out of backorder.
Click to expand...


Meaning they will always be on backorder because of the volume of orderrs they will receive, as explained to me previously, I think.
 
I know everyone hates predictions (even in a prediction thread hehe) but its a slow day at work and heres my bet on why I think Scarlet will be interchangeable at a 7K or below price point:

Firstly, less than a month ago Ted was caught on camera stating that there was a problem with a component in the fixed lens system (due to the Japan disaster): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3wBUqcO6aA

Secondly, the Epic-s Has been taken down from the road map (the most affordable interchangeable RED Camera option): http://nofilmschool.com/2011/09/red-drops-epic-s-from-roadmap/

Thirdly, in the RED store the RED pro primes are ticked as compatible with scarlet (even though this could be unfounded it seems bit strange that they would not un-tick them if it had fixed lens): http://www.red.com/store/lenses/product/red-pro-prime-18mm-t18-i-bt

Fourthly, the rumours coming out of Canon (even though I'm sure RED already knows whats going to go down) are that they are producing a hi-res video camera that is interchangeable (supposedly with EF or PL): http://www.canonrumors.com/2011/09/new-video-camera-information-cr1/

All these points lead ME to believe that RED is going to launch the Scarlet with an interchangeable mount (most likely options would be either PL or Canon). The reason I think that the camera will be 7K or below is strictly to do with Ted's comments just a few months ago and the fact that Canon will most likely adopt a similar price point to capture the DSLR crowd which desperately need an upgrade. Also, I'm not an expert on what it costs to make a camera, but surely getting rid of the lens would reduce the cost of the body (as your basically not including a lens in the kit) and would mean that a fully "ready to shoot kit" could be launched and consumers could use the lenses they already have (or buy one at a later date).

Another important fact to bear in mind would be that it is most likely that Canon would release a camera that is interchangeable. No matter how superior the image quality of the Scarlet, some users would still opt for the ability to change lens to achieve the look they want. Although I personally would opt for a Fixed RED Scarlet over an interchangeable Canon, I can see why RED would want to completely dominate the market (and rightly so).

Finally, I was always confused with the Epic-S, purely because (and call me up if im wrong) I thought it would be odd to release a "cheap" Epic. This to me doesn't sound like good business sense because it would impact on Epic-X sales. Surely adopting a lower res interchangeable camera would be the best compromise?

Anyway whatever happens its going to be Epic... I mean Scarlet (sorry that has been over used in this forum lol).

P.S and before anyone wants to post it... WAIT TILL NOVEMBER 3RD
 
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Scarlet 2/3 Fixed, Scarlet Cinema 2/3 interchangeable and -maybe a bit later - Epic S, S35 interchangeable (together with Epic and Red One) seems like a programme which would cover the full spectrum of the market for a professional, high resolution moving image camera.
If the specs remain the same as have been released previously, that looks absolutely fine to me. If they have been upgraded then all the better... but whats not to like!?!
 
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