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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Not upgrading to Weapon

I'm also a bit shocked about the announcements. We are talking of an average upgrade price of about 22 you really have to pay.
People tend to forget about the new SSDs, new LCD and a IO Module here and there. The best IO modules at the moment come from Offhollywood so no credit there.

I would upgrade in a heartbeat if the weapon magnesium body had faster frame rates and Prores 4K. Come on, small BM Cameras can record multiple formats in 4K and more in camera theses days for around 5K. That an all new Red body still has the same frame rates like a 3.5 year old Epic body puzzles me. And no upgrade path to 8K.
This is a damn expensive make-over even though it would be nice.
It's not so much the money that bothers me, it's too little of a difference to what I have now. It almost makes no sense.
I was ready to spend but now I still wait and see. This is the first time for me, that I don't upgrade right away. I had Red-One 505.
Give me some time.......
 
Ryan Lightbourn said:
If any of you guys feel like selling your shitty, outdated Epic-Dragon's for $12K send me a PM.
Click to expand...

You can have mine for $34k. You will get an amazing credit of $15,500 for trading it in and be one of the cool kids with Weapons. After spending the additional $22k. Deal?
 
Chris Kennedy said:
Who really needs 8K? The same size Vista Vision sensor at 6k would've been more then enough to justify an upgrade.
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It doesn't work that way. The Vista Vision sensor is just a larger cut of the Dragon 6K sensor. That's why its 8K. More pixels, more resolution.
 
Nick Morrison said:
It doesn't work that way. The Vista Vision sensor is just a larger cut of the Dragon 6K sensor. That's why its 8K. More pixels, more resolution.
Click to expand...
For sure, another thing I like about this is my A camera can be a weapon 8k, and my B camera can be a epic dragon 6k ... Which puts me on the exact same raw base sensor for post. (At least this is my plan, since I can't afford to move both my dragons to weapon).
 
Milan S. said:
You can have mine for $34k. You will get an amazing credit of $15,500 for trading it in and be one of the cool kids with Weapons. After spending the additional $22k. Deal?
Click to expand...

Sounds like you have an M, then the credit is 17.500,-
Seems some have been told that "during NAB" u can use the 5000 credit towards the new body. If you have minimags and the monitor you want, you are down to 12k$ for the upgrade to Weapon body.

But of course your maths sounds more interesting than just buying a Mg Weapon for 34k, and try to get more than 22.500$ for a used Epic M Dragon body-only in the open market....
Actually I'd consider selling my Epic-M dragon body-only, if someone offered me 22.5k USD for it right now.
 
What a great ride this has been. From Red One way back when, to the amazing Epic X Dragon which I think is one of the best cameras ever. I will not proceed with the Weapon upgrade. I'm saddened that this will be the end of the ride as far as the upgrade path is concerned for me.

This is no longer an indie film camera nor does it cater to that market. And I'm very happy for Red that they have achieved so much in such a short time. They are at the top of the ladder with Arri, having come out of "vaporware". I'm glad to have been an early adopter and that I was able to make the great journey.

But I have too much invested in Dragon and specific accessories to that system. What is offered is not worth another major investment... to me. I'm sure it will make sense for others.

Thanks Red for such an enjoyable adventure to this point.
 
Jon Carr said:
The only beef I have is 2 things, 1 having to call them this morning cause I could not place my deposit online. 2, would be better if they could extend the 8K option price until your actual weapon upgrade is called. Not make you pay a extra 10k after the 16th. Everything else is ok with me.
Click to expand...
I was a bit shocked by that as well. They're basically asking people to pay $5,000-$20,000 now, with cameras not being delivered until July iirc. But RED isn't exactly on time with deliveries... then again, no one really is.

But thats a lot of dough to drop as a deposit for something that isn't shipping til July, and or being upgraded til the end of '15 IF everything is on time.

I don't really understand the 8K price jump for after NAB, it's not something you can really get. As much as I'd love 8K the fact that it can't be in the MG version, and after this week it's a 20K upgrade on top of a huge CF camera purchase might deter quite a few. Maybe i'm wrong, just seems like a very short window of time to make a decision with no footage and no Weapons even in end user hands.

I'm sure it'll be phenomenal, but thats a lot of dough no matter how you slice it if you don't jump in during NAB week. Guess it's a way to create more tiers of users.
 
Ken Willinger said:
What a great ride this has been. From Red One way back when, to the amazing Epic X Dragon which I think is one of the best cameras ever. I will not proceed with the Weapon upgrade. I'm saddened that this will be the end of the ride as far as the upgrade path is concerned for me.

This is no longer an indie film camera nor does it cater to that market. And I'm very happy for Red that they have achieved so much in such a short time. They are at the top of the ladder with Arri, having come out of "vaporware". I'm glad to have been an early adopter and that I was able to make the great journey.

But I have too much invested in Dragon and specific accessories to that system. What is offered is not worth another major investment... to me. I'm sure it will make sense for others.

Thanks Red for such an enjoyable adventure to this point.
Click to expand...

Ken, Jarred has confirmed ALL Dragon cameras (Epic/Scarlet/Weapon) are eligible for the next sensor, so the ride isn't ending!

There's just a new Roll Royce in the garage that you don't have to buy/upgrade to if you don't want to.

The BMW you are currently driving is still totally awesome!!
best
 
Nick Morrison said:
Ken, Jarred has confirmed ALL Dragon cameras (Epic/Scarlet/Weapon) are eligible for the next sensor, so the ride isn't ending!

There's just a new Roll Royce in the garage that you don't have to buy/upgrade to if you don't want to.

The BMW you are currently driving is still totally awesome!!
best
Click to expand...


Please explain to me why you are considering it a Rolls Royce and and epic Dragon a BMW as specs are 95% the same? Look at the spec pages on RED.com all but the prores capability is the same, and for 4500 as opposed to 20k+ you can make all the prores you like...
.I liken it to an epic in a tuxedo if you will...
A 356 porcshe when you look under the hood its a VW engine...sure looks good but at the finish line you'll still be next to the VW beetle.
 
If ProRes is really that much of a concern why not just get a recorder for a Dragon that acts as a monitor as well? Seems like a no brainer to me... Sure it's nice that it's all in one body but you can kind of kill two birds with one stone.
 
Weapon is for a number of reasons a good thing, but it's not what "all" need.


Better design
Looks like it can interface better with larger workflows and conventional sets without modifications
Possibly lower compression
I'd guess: Somewhat better Image Quality.
Vista Vision (for those who need that)

I haven't seen this kind of noise around the Alexa when ARRI re-packages and updates the tech around the same sensor Tech, and the Alexa (despite having the same sensor) is arguably a much better cam now than when it was first released. Allowing tech to mature and improve is only good for RED, its users and for all those who doesn't have to fully re-invent their workflows and signalchains.

Also I think it is easy to negate the impact ACES will have over the next 2-3 years as to how we process images from digital cinema cameras.

Development and evolvement everywhere.

G
 
Gunleik Groven said:
Weapon is for a number of reasons a good thing, but it's not what "all" need.


Better design
Looks like it can interface better with larger workflows and conventional sets without modifications
Possibly lower compression
I'd guess: Somewhat better Image Quality.
Vista Vision (for those who need that)

I haven't seen this kind of noise around the Alexa when ARRI re-packages and updates the tech around the same sensor Tech, and the Alexa (despite having the same sensor) is arguably a much better cam now than when it was first released. Allowing tech to mature and improve is only good for RED, its users and for all those who doesn't have to fully re-invent their workflows and signalchains.

Also I think it is easy to negate the impact ACES will have over the next 2-3 years as to how we process images from digital cinema cameras.

Development and evolvement everywhere.

G
Click to expand...

Better design - It's smaller, fans are in a better spot for audio, but overall it's not much different really, and just when the whole DSMC modules concept was starting to work, and modules started making sense its getting reset in a whole new body, so is a new design really better? Could argue it either way.
Looks like it can interface better with larger workflows and conventional sets without modifications - very true
Possibly lower compression - Great if you have the space and cards to accommodate it, but wasn't one of the biggest pluses of Dragon the higher compression actually looking better than on MX?
I'd guess: Somewhat better Image Quality - Somewhat Better doesn't really sell... unless it's just "shiny new toy" syndrome
Vista Vision (for those who need that) -This is still down the line past the Weapon's release and a HUGE price jump if you don't jump in and buy it before the camera it goes in, is even within 3 months of releasing.

It's really arguable either way in terms of value now and in the future for all users. To me Weapon, while awesome seems like a segway, with the same sensor to whats coming next. It seems like it's more about the 8K VV which is even further down the line. Obviously getting in now sets you up to what right now appears to be the most affordable option to have an 8K VV camera, but it also sets you back quite a bit financially currently to add ProRes, 17x or 32x LUTS and a smaller body.
 
Jeffery. I agree.
And that is why I think the Dragon and Scarlet will live on for quite a while.

Weapon seems more tuned towards rentals, and I find that a good move.
(Looking at my Epic Dragon with compassion...)

And as it is stated that ALL Dragons are eligble for next-gen sensor-upgrades when it happens, it's more a day of rejoicing than fear for me.
 
Gunleik Groven said:
Jeffery. I agree.
And that is why I think the Dragon and Scarlet will live on for quite a while.

Weapon seems more tuned towards rentals, and I find that a good move.
(Looking at my Epic Dragon with compassion...)

And as it is stated that ALL Dragons are eligble for next-gen sensor-upgrades when it happens, it's more a day of rejoicing than fear for me.
Click to expand...
I'm right there with you.
I'm looking forward to renting one of those Weapons until I can potentially justify it. Thankfully most of my clients are still extremely happy with MX footage, as am I.
 
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