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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Not upgrading to Weapon

Time to switch from rental business to production . :nads:
Does anyone have a good script to sell ?
We open for offers .
 
Is this really a new body? Because for the life if me it looks identical to current DSMC form with just unscrewed metal panels and replaced with carbon/ titanium and charged 20k for the privilege?

The other killer, is the body alone ( unlike the current form ) has no external connections so you need to pay for more of those very pricey external modules just to get a signal out of the thing. Nearly 4k for an updated side handle/ red volt holder ? At least the ridiculous " module adaptor " is no more . Also at least it may force RED into addressing the performance issues with the Redvolt system.

All in all it appears the Red Eco system is now becoming an elite Arri business model for large scale cinema productions. This is Reds right to choose. But given the majority of work is now being generated on the small screen we also have the right to adapt to the very real structural changes happening within the industry and which is seemingly being ignored.
 
Won't upgrade.

I'm old school, I've grown up with 35mm. I'm used to PL Glas. I work with an assistant, focus puller. I don't like stills lenses for filmmaking. I will never need 8K, not 5k, max. 4k as a final result. I figure that 5K in 16:9 delivers after debayering and proper focus setting enough resolution for a good 4k picture.

Ok. Most jobs in Hollywood and TV-land are shot on Arri, not much room left for competition. Even Sony is out of the game, at least here in Europe. Red needs a new customer base. I think that Red ist aiming more and more towards the stills market in its high-end realm, hybrid guys who do both stills and moving pictures, advertising, fashion, etc... or even privateers/hobbyists. This makes perfectly sense. Weapon CF with FF/Vista sized sensor and 8k is a clear move in this direction and the Epic has always been market as a hybrid camera. The position of the new monitor with its new smart mount where a film camera has normally the viewfinder is perfectly made for stills but not for filmmaking. Its probably a meaningful development for Red - but not for me.

The Magnesium Weapon, the less expensive upgrade path, leads apparently only to ProRes proxy recording as a new function. I figure that an upgrade from my Dragon Epic to a Mag. Weapon Epic will cost me around 25k -27k, including necessary media upgrades, modules etc... That makes hardly sense for only onboard ProRes proxy recording. And an Upgrade to a CF Weapon plus 8k Sensor upgrade is beyond any meaning full investment for my needs.

So what to do? Nothing really. I go shooting and enjoy the terrific pictures my not obsolete camera is capable of. In a year or two I will re-evaluate the situation. By then there may be a chance that Red has an interesting offering for the work I do. But clearly, Red is not alone on this planet. The only camera that never let me down in 15 yeas of usage is my old Arri Sr II S-16. Perhaps at some point I might go back to the roots. The camera company from Munich thinks only moving pictures, always did and never looked elsewhere. Perhaps this is their formula for success.


Hans
 
Lakis Amarantithis said:
I think and hope the fps soon will go double as the new write speed is double. Makes sense?
Click to expand...

If that was the case . . . it would have been in bold type on page one of the Weapon announcement. More likely it's the same internals (with maybe a .1 firmware tweak), just new exterior trim and exotic materials for the luxury market. Like the $12K gold Apple iWatch. There's a market for this exclusive stuff. Being part of the future "8K Club" is something many want to wear around their neck and talk about . . . like jewelry ;-)
 
This is the first time I can ever remember the majority of RED owner ops being dissapointed.

I think we all "predicted" Weapon upgrade would be similar price wise to Red One - Epic (if not cheaper with all the cheerleading going on about how you better uograde before NAB comments from the top). I was honestly expecting the uograde to be about $8-10k after a steep discount to get to the magnesium body and $20k to go Carbon Vista. But before that many of us thought Weapon was going to be a larger sensor uograde included or super high frame rate.

in other words, we are kind of our own enemy with building all these outlandish expectations based on past pricing and hope.

anyways, no way am I upgrading. Dragon is end of the line for me...and a very awesome one at that!
 
Milan S. said:
I think it's little early to dismiss this upgrade since we still don't know the the details that really matter, like the frame rates and compression ratios.
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Shouldn't Red have done this BEFORE asking for everybody to sign up?!
 
Patrick Grossien said:
Only too bad that I jumped to Scarlet Dragon because I originally wanted to go Epic first and then Dragon. With Weapon as it stands now, I'm not so sure I would have done the same thing.

There's definitely no way I'll upgrade to Weapon unless I score an amazing job anytime soon - or win the lottery. But as Jarred said: Epic and Scarlet are not going anywhere.. Weapon just gets added to the top.

I just hoped there would've been something like the originally announced Scarlet FF35 somewhere in there. With the VV sensor costing $20K it seems like this is not going to happen anytime soon ;)

When the R1 came out, I thought RED will always maintain that level of indie cinema ownership base and with Scarlet FF35 for $10K on the horizon this seemed to extend into the DSMC / photo area. With the VV sensor now costing $20K the hopes for a FF35 DSMC camera that's "affordable" seem gone. Who knows, maybe we'll get something similar in the future but right now it doesn't seem likely.

On a lighter note:
Weapon doesn't devalue your existing Dragon camera, because it's almost the same thing image wise. And with the price for Weapon being high as it is, the resale value of the current cameras doesn't drop as much.
I'll assume that in time, the Weapon body factor will trickle down to Scarlet and Epic. But until that happens, we still have time ;)
Click to expand...

Well if you ever want to upgrade and can't justify weapon prices you can now also upgrade from Scarlet Dragon to Epic Dragon if you want down the line.
http://www.red.com/store/products/scarlet-dragon-to-epic-dragon-upgrade
 
The only beef I have is 2 things, 1 having to call them this morning cause I could not place my deposit online. 2, would be better if they could extend the 8K option price until your actual weapon upgrade is called. Not make you pay a extra 10k after the 16th. Everything else is ok with me.
 
Ivan Kovax said:
Shouldn't Red have done this BEFORE asking for everybody to sign up?!
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Ivan, I agree. Since we now know the specs, I think that the upgrade is definitely not worth it for me.
I'm happy with the Dragon and will ride it into obsolescence.
Considering other options down the road.
 
Steve Sherrick said:
In my opinion, there are some things in this upgrade that if they pan out as stated, make the upgrade an important one for certain types of productions.
- Calibration. This needs to happen automatically and in real time in my opinion. The way sets are run these days, there is no time for anything. So trying to do a black shade calibration can sometimes be problematic, even if it's just a few minutes. Simply not an issue with Alexa. So, this is huge if RED has managed to get this right.
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As I just posted in another thread on Weapon, unfortunately I don't think they nailed this. My tinkering with Weapon today at NAB revealed that it does indeed still require black shade when going from say 24fps 180 degree shutter to 1fps 180 degree. The auto black shade on weapon only works to a certain degree of frame rate and shutter speed shift. Thought I should share that before everyone starts thinking that they no longer need to black shade weapon ever, as I would want to know.
 
Upgraded from Redone all the way into Epic Dragon. But this time I think I'll pass. Time to lay low and see what the future brings and what new companies do in several years.

As long as my Epic Dragon works, I think I am set. An amazing camera, with some flaws that these new sexy Weapons seem to fix, but with the price of the upgrade and their new camera systems being so high, Epic Dragon seems better than ever.

The $5,000 accessory credit makes it tempting, but such a short time to think about it anyway. I don't get it.

I embarked on a company that believed in $17,500 body cameras with affordable upgrades can change the industry, and they did. But now things feel that are shifting. Also future upgrade possibilities feel uncertain, complicated and also expensive.

From an emotional point, and being a red follower from a long time, the Red mojo has changed for me after this NAB. But business is business right? :zombie_smiley

Now RED feels like ARRI. I still think way better cameras but similar vibe/$.

Now back to shoot great stuff on Epic Dragons.
 
Ivan Cortazar said:
Upgraded from Redone all the way into Epic Dragon. But this time I think I'll pass. Time to lay low and see what the future brings and what new companies do in several years.

As long as my Epic Dragon works, I think I am set. An amazing camera, with some flaws that these new sexy Weapons seem to fix, but with the price of the upgrade and their new camera systems being so high, Epic Dragon seems better than ever.

The $5,000 accessory credit makes it tempting, but such a short time to think about it anyway. I don't get it.

I embarked on a company that believed in $17,500 body cameras with affordable upgrades can change the industry, and they did. But now things feel that are shifting. Also future upgrade possibilities feel uncertain, complicated and also expensive.

From an emotional point, and being a red follower from a long time, the Red mojo has changed for me after this NAB. But business is business right? :zombie_smiley

Now RED feels like ARRI. I still think way better cameras but similar vibe/$.

Now back to shoot great stuff on Epic Dragons.
Click to expand...

Ditto
 
Ivan Cortazar said:
Upgraded from Redone all the way into Epic Dragon. But this time I think I'll pass. Time to lay low and see what the future brings and what new companies do in several years.

As long as my Epic Dragon works, I think I am set. An amazing camera, with some flaws that these new sexy Weapons seem to fix, but with the price of the upgrade and their new camera systems being so high, Epic Dragon seems better than ever.

The $5,000 accessory credit makes it tempting, but such a short time to think about it anyway. I don't get it.

I embarked on a company that believed in $17,500 body cameras with affordable upgrades can change the industry, and they did. But now things feel that are shifting. Also future upgrade possibilities feel uncertain, complicated and also expensive.

From an emotional point, and being a red follower from a long time, the Red mojo has changed for me after this NAB. But business is business right? :zombie_smiley

Now RED feels like ARRI. I still think way better cameras but similar vibe/$.

Now back to shoot great stuff on Epic Dragons.
Click to expand...

Perfect summation of my point of view and (I feel) a lot of other people right now.
 
I'm tapping out.

The 6K and 8K sensor upgrade is a pretty amazing announcement in and of itself and I am pretty sure some spectacular productions will come out of it, but the offer of a new form factor and increased resolution, among many other things announced, doesn’t reflect my current needs, especially at these price points.

In addition, the timing was a bit odd on this one, as I am not ready to upgrade immediately after I just upgraded. Although I do appreciate the credit and upgrade option, which no company I know of offers— the added pressure of making a decision in such a narrow window of time is not helping.

I am more than happy with the Epic Dragon at this point.
 
Seems like this is the end of the line for me as well. It makes more sense to just keep shooting with my scarlet dragon, the trade in isn't really worth it. It would be nice to see the little guys get a better deal (% wise) than those who have plenty of cash and can buy multiple epics. I don't see how the average Scarlet D owner can afford to instantly triple their recent RED investment. Though on the bright side my disappointment is good for my wallet, and even if BMD pulls off its price and product promises, my Scarlet D still makes pretty pictures. I just wish we were thrown more of a bone.
 
Well the $5k accessories credit for pre-NAB Dragon owners isn't set to expire when NAB ends so that might convince and motivate current non-upgraders like myself to upgrade at a later point in time. Kudos to RED for that.
 
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