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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Not getting 120fps but 4K 2:1 and lower on Dragon?

Charles Bergquist

Charles Bergquist

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I'm only getting 119.XXXfps in 5K WS AND 4K. I've tried entering it manually and it wont take.To get to 120fps I need to go to 4K 2:1. Am I doing something wrong or is there no 120fps at 5K WS and 4K. Need to shoot 120fps exactly because of shutter angle / flicker.

Also, I thought I recalled shooting at 2K HD at 240fps on Epic and now on Dragon it's at 210fps.

Thanks for any help on this or clarification.

Added : I'm on Mini-Mags as well.
 
Charles, I'm away from my camera right now, but this might have to do with project timebase. If you change your Project timebase from 23.976 to 24, does that reveal 120fps as an option?
 
Also, you if you're worried about a flicker issue, you can always hold down the Shutter Speed / Exposure Time menu tab, and then change the exact angle / integration time by extremely small intervals. Could be worth a shot if you can't get 120 to appear.
 
Thanks for the responses guys.

Look Around is Off also I checked the 23.976fps v 24fps time base and that did nothing.

Still not able to achieve 120fps in 5K WS.

Any other ideas? Thanks again!
 
Thanks Chad,

On the Epic Dragon page it says :

1-100 fps 6K
1-120 fps 5K, 4.5K
1-150 fps 4K
1-200 fps 3K
1-300 fps 2K

Only reason I bring this up is shooting in the US to get flicker free at any shutter we'd need that extra 0.9 frame, any chance we can get that in the future? It'd help a lot when wanting to shooting 5K WS in studio environments.
 
Charles Bergquist said:
Thanks Chad,

Only reason I bring this up is shooting in the US to get flicker free at any shutter we'd need that extra 0.9 frame, any chance we can get that in the future? It'd help a lot when wanting to shooting 5K WS in studio environments.
Click to expand...

Not really, it's about the shutter. As Burke said, change the shutter to the speed that you need because that's what actually matters.
 
Matthew J said:
Not really, it's about the shutter. As Burke said, change the shutter to the speed that you need because that's what actually matters.
Click to expand...

Understood, but at 120fps in the US you can use almost any shutter angle. At say 119.08, you're limited to one selection that's actually very open.

Just brought it up because we needed 120ps at 5KWS and couldn't get to 120fps until we windowed the sensor down to 4K 2:1, that's the only time it becomes available. 120fps was what we needed to shoot. Producers were referencing the specs on the website and I didn't have an answer for them.
 
Originally Posted by Matthew J
Not really, it's about the shutter. As Burke said, change the shutter to the speed that you need because that's what actually matters.


I sound like a broken record on this time base and flicker issue.

In times past - when we were shooting film - you could rely on the cine safe flicker speeds (any speed evenly divisible into 120 - 24, 30,40, 60, 120) at ANY shutter angle. The 23.98 time base has killed this, and I would lobby to get rid of that time base for principle photography. You could still do post at 23.98 ( remember. Telecine was this same way - shoot at 24 - transfer at 23.98)

I digress.

The other issue is the rolling shutter. This renders the "safe to shoot at any angle" useless with most non tungsten lighting. You need a global shutter to make the "safe at any angle" valid again. HMI lighting can be tricky with these issues. LED lighting is even worse. You'll get flicker with the new dedolight LEDs even at high speeds. The creamsource claims flicker free. It flickers too. You've got to fiddle a bit with shutter angles now, and still it won't be 100%

Test test test. And even when you test, it sometimes won't work on the day. Go figure.

B Jonsson
 
Chad K said:
Hi,

This all sounds accurate when compared to the max FPS chart in the DSMC OPERATION GUIDE on page 57.

DSMC OPERATION GUIDE: http://s3.amazonaws.com/red_3/downloads/manuals/DSMC_Operation_Guide_v5.1_Rev-H.pdf
Click to expand...

but it's not accurate when i read what you sell on the red homepage, when i read the tech. spec.
is it worthless what red writes on it's own homepage ??? this and what i must read here at reduser.net about noise and some other glitches brought me to my final decision. as well the poor service for the european customers, much longer delivery times as i noticed when i bought the v-mount battery plate. my wait was a few months, while other redusers posted, that they received their plates within two or three weeks. don't want to tell long stories about the missing 25fps capabilities of redray...

conclusio:
i cancelled my dragon order today. ordered and ALREADY paid it early in feb. 2014. very sad about that, but at least someone will be happy to get it a very little bit earlier, as i gave up my place in the line :-)

will think about a dragon update again, and show up as buying customer when dragon can fullfill the (on their own homepage!!!) given spec.

norbert
 
Sorry to hear that, Norbert.

Please note our firmware team is actually working on builds (both the release 5.1.x and beta 5.2.x branches) that will meet published specs as we speak. Sometimes it is a rolling development process where specs published are where we will be, not where we are at a moment in time.
 
Brent@RED said:
Sorry to hear that, Norbert.

Please note our firmware team is actually working on builds (both the release 5.1.x and beta 5.2.x branches) that will meet published specs as we speak. Sometimes it is a rolling development process where specs published are where we will be, not where we are at a moment in time.
Click to expand...

thanks brent,
not to be misunderstood, i'm not angry about that framerate thing. and i will upgrade for shure, if everything is solved. i'm not in hurry with that and can await the upgrade.
in the meantime i'll keep shooting with my mx, which is still a fantastic camera !

cheers
 
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