Nikon lense use for video

[Brandon J Thomas]

i am currently a student and looking for a camera to purchase. i recently bought a nikon d90 for its still capabilities, but also with high hopes the video options would capture nice footage... unfortunately i have been a little disappointed so far. i was interested in purchasing the scarlet 2/3 when it comes out, primarily for shooting video. my question is that with the proper lens mount... could i just use my dslr lenses with it? and if so would it be decent quality? i was doing some research on hd lenses and have seen u can pay upwards of $25000 for a camera lens... which is out of my price range. any suggestions and or comment would be appreciated. thanks

 

[Phillip Hudson]

I believe RED does have plans to make Nikon and other still camera lens mounts for the Scarlet. There are people using still camera lenses on the RED One and getting beautiful results. The same should be true with Scarlet.

Cheers,

 

[Andrew Walker]

for a while now I have been using my Zeiss ZF lenses on my Red along with a 80-200mm Nikon zoom and I've been very happy with the results.

 

[Lee Saxon]

i was doing some research on hd lenses and have seen u can pay upwards of $25000 for a camera lens... which is out of my price range

Why it takes $25000 to build a lens with sufficient resolving power for 1080 HD (about 2 megapixels) when Nikon has $300 lenses that have sufficient resolving power for their 12 and 24 megapixels DSLRs is one of those great mysteries of the universe, in my opinion.

 

[Kevin Olsen]

Why it takes $25000 to build a lens with sufficient resolving power for 1080 HD (about 2 megapixels) when Nikon has $300 lenses that have sufficient resolving power for their 12 and 24 megapixels DSLRs is one of those great mysteries of the universe, in my opinion.

I agree, however lens distortions are relatively hidden in still photos. Once things move across the screen or you zoom in and out while recording, the distortions are move visible. That's my only logic, other than some basic lens design flaws to make them pretty inexpensive.

KO

 

[Marc Berger]

Why it takes $25000 to build a lens with sufficient resolving power for 1080 HD (about 2 megapixels) when Nikon has $300 lenses that have sufficient resolving power for their 12 and 24 megapixels DSLRs is one of those great mysteries of the universe, in my opinion.

I use DSLR lenses and get very beautiful results. But when breathing and smooth focusing counts they are useless. A prof. focus puller on a big set would have a hard job with DSLR lenses. It´s not all about resolution!
For me DSLR lenses are a good choice if I work alone (light) on documentaries. (I fix aperture and focus and leave it during one take).
Every lens have its place in its specific workflow and there are good reasons for the existing variety.
If your doing your own movie without the time (or other) pressure of a producer, you can choose the cheapest way to build up your equipment and still achieve great results. Red and DSLR lenses works great. To configure the cam however you need it is one of the big advantages of Red1 (later Scarlet), and if you show great pictures nobody asks which lenses you used for it...unless you post them on Reduser.net.
Don´t care about the price of a lens. Judge with your own eyes and use what ever is good for your work.
Cheers,
Marc

 

[PatC]

OP, you should be able to use your nikon glass on the scarlet assuming they made the mount, but I think it is something like a 4x crop factor. If you ran a 50 than it would be a 200. I could be way off, but after looking at some sensor sizes online that is kind of what I figured.

If down the line in your movie making career you want to get more serious you can have your nikon glass rehoused with lens gears and being able to stop in between f stops smoothly. I forget the name of the person that does it, but I could find it if you needed.

Hope this helps. Scarlet sure is exciting.

 

[Steve Gibby]

For small crew productions, me and my crews have used multiple Nikon lenses, and one Canon lens, in 4k and 3k on RED One extensively - with excellent results.

All focusing has been by eye, and we never use them with a matte box or follow focus. We use screw-on filters and rack focus by hand on the lens barrel in order to keep the camera setup light.

We use 35mm stills zooms as variable primes, for quick re-framing, almost never zooming during a shot or take, and then only with zooms that hold focus when zooming and breathe very little. There are usage workarounds when you use 35mm stills lenses on RED One, and Epic and Scarlet to come (S35 and FF35 models of Scarlet), but the optics in the best 35mm stills lenses are excellent. Also, the new RED Electronic Lenses should definitely be something to check out for the DSMC model cameras.

The footage from those 35mm stills lens setups has been used for television, stock footage, trade shows (NAB, SIMA, NATPE. etc.), high-end business video, BluRay, etc.

Networks and clients have been very happy with the footage - and to me that's the bottom line - along with the fact that we've saved a lot of money along the way by using 35mm stills lenses, while still getting excellent end result footage.

If you want to use your Nikon 35mm stills lenses on Scarlet, you should buy at least the S35 model Scarlet, or the FF35 model if your Nikon lenses are FF35.

Hope this info helps you...

 

[PatC]

Hey Gibby,

You don't use any FF on your nikons? That's awesome! I was thinking about going with an FF setup, but hadn't because I do it with my hands and they cost a little $$. So I guess I'll just continue that if you don't find a greater advantage of having the FF. How do you mark your focus points?

Also, I thought canon glass had the aperture controls internally? If so, how did you work around that...

 

[Lee Saxon]

Still photographer/noob question : I don't know what "breathing" means.

Also, I thought canon glass had the aperture controls internally? If so, how did you work around that...

Most newer ones do, as do many newer Nikons now unfortunately. But if you buy lenses a few years old, you'll find your good ole aperture rings.

 

[Gary Stone]

to use nikon still glass without the gigantic crop factor, you'll need the s35 ($7000) scarlet. i would also advise getting nikon lenses with a manual apeture ring. the description for the lens mounts say there will be intelligent control of the lenses but it's just easier to turn the ring...

 

[Lee Saxon]

the description for the lens mounts say there will be intelligent control of the lenses but it's just easier to turn the ring...

I didn't know that, that's awesome. I'll be able to use my newer G-type lenses that don't have aperture rings!

 

[Steve Gibby]

Hey Gibby,

You don't use any FF on your nikons? That's awesome! I was thinking about going with an FF setup, but hadn't because I do it with my hands and they cost a little $$. So I guess I'll just continue that if you don't find a greater advantage of having the FF. How do you mark your focus points?

Also, I thought canon glass had the aperture controls internally? If so, how did you work around that...

When we're using Nikon lenses it's almost always in real mobile situations where we want to keep the rigs as light/least bulky as possible - either because we need to shoulder hold them - or in the case of long lenses we have to transport all the equipment a long ways to the shooting locations. Thus no MB and FF. The screw-on filters have worked very well for our genres and small to mid-sized crew situations.

We don't usually shoot narrative subjects, so we have no need to mark focus marks on the lens - everything is eye focus in those genres - so no need to mark anything. We use 1:1 image magnification to quickly nail focus. Our apertures are occasionally as wide as f2.8, but the norm is between f4 and f11. The short focus rotation of the Nikon lenses actually is a plus when you eye focus them on RED.

We use a Canon lens a lot when we shoot sports, wildlife, and nature. Its a stock Canon FD 150-600 f5.6L zoom, with a Century PL mount conversion (mount only). Its a manual lens, with a combination push/pull to zoom, and twist to rack focus lever knob on the left side of the case. It naturally has an external iris ring. The lens is maintained for me by Duclos - and they de-clicked the aperture ring for me - they do great work BTW. The footage from this lens on RED in 4k is stellar.

 

[Reinhold R.]

Still photographer/noob question : I don't know what "breathing" means.

Breathing is an undesired effect you get on most still and some cheaper video lenses - the focal length of the lens changes when racking focus (or following focus for that matter). Not a big deal with still photography but quite distracting in video and film.

The reverse problem can occur as well. Meaning that the in-focus plane shifts when adjusting the focal length. I'm sure there's some technical term for that as well.

 

[Steve Gibby]

I didn't know that, that's awesome. I'll be able to use my newer G-type lenses that don't have aperture rings!

Actually that question was clarified by Jim Jannard a few days ago on a Scarlet User thread as follows:

We do have power and intelligent lens data interfaces, but we do not have the ability to integrate Canon or Nikon feedback and control inside our "brain". Not only is that something we choose not to do, it isn't ethical or legal. We would not want Canon to have full control of RED lenses on their camera either.

Jim
3/27/09
http://www.scarletuser.com/showthread.php?t=2739

When asked on the thread:

“So does that mean that we cannot expect to have iris control on Canon EF and Nikon G lenses, and would have to go manual focus 100% of the time on them as well?

If so, then I guess I'll have to go for the 2/3" fixed or maybe interchangeable. No reason to spend the extra dough on the s35 if I can't get what I need out of it”


Jim responded with:

It will take something like a Birger adaptor to get what I think you are asking for. Or RED AF stabilized lenses.

It surprises me (greatly) that anyone would think we could or would support all electronic functions from another system. When have you ever seen this done? Does Nikon support Canon protocol? Help me out here...


---------------------

So, yes you'll be able to use your Nikon and Canon lenses on Epic and Scarlet, but apparently it will be in the same manner you use them on RED One, manual, or by use of a 3rd party accessory. For using Nikon DX G series lenses on Epic and Scarlet, which don't have a manual iris ring, I would expect someone like Underdahl to make a DX mount adaptor similar to the one they made for use right now on RED One - which uses a manual little brass knob on the bottom of the mount to control iris.

There are some 35mm stills lenses that breathe very little, and hold focus throughout a zoom very well. even on a lens that breathes, breathing is only a problem when you rack focus during a shot. Same with focus changing during a zoom - its only a problem if you zoom during the actual take. If you use stills lenses on RED as variable primes - simply to re-frame shots - you have no problems with breathing and/or zoom focus loss.

Especially on the new DSMC RED models, the new RED Electronic Lenses could be an excellent choice, because as Jim has verified, they will fully "talk" with the new camera brains - and they feature auto focus and image stabilization. I expect the new RED Electronic Lenses to breathe very little, and to hold focus throughout a zoom. The December 3 RED announcement brochure has info on the new mounts and the new electronic lenses.

As they mention regularly, all RED announcements are subject to change until they are announced as final specifications.

 

[Lee Saxon]

I would never expect to take a Scarlet out of the box and have it be able to autofocus or whatever else with my Nikon lens any more than I would expect that with a Canon camera.

But when someone says they're making a 'lens adapter' I'm not sure what I expect. I wouldn't expect it to somehow operate Nikon's Vibration Reduction / Canon's Image Stabilization systems or even their AF systems or anything like that. But 'power and intelligent lens data interface' has to mean it's more than a piece of metal the right shape to attach a Nikon lens. Maybe it just means the camera will be able to store the name of the lens you used in file metadata.

But if 3rd parties are making adapters that can interface with the aperture controls on a G lens, I'm not sure why Red couldn't.

 

[Harry Lipnick]

Actually that question was clarified by Jim Jannard a few days ago on a Scarlet User thread as follows:

We do have power and intelligent lens data interfaces, but we do not have the ability to integrate Canon or Nikon feedback and control inside our "brain". Not only is that something we choose not to do, it isn't ethical or legal. We would not want Canon to have full control of RED lenses on their camera either.

Jim
3/27/09
http://www.scarletuser.com/showthread.php?t=2739

When asked on the thread:

“So does that mean that we cannot expect to have iris control on Canon EF and Nikon G lenses, and would have to go manual focus 100% of the time on them as well?

If so, then I guess I'll have to go for the 2/3" fixed or maybe interchangeable. No reason to spend the extra dough on the s35 if I can't get what I need out of it”


Jim responded with:

It will take something like a Birger adaptor to get what I think you are asking for. Or RED AF stabilized lenses.

It surprises me (greatly) that anyone would think we could or would support all electronic functions from another system. When have you ever seen this done? Does Nikon support Canon protocol? Help me out here...


---------------------

So, yes you'll be able to use your Nikon and Canon lenses on Epic and Scarlet, but apparently it will be in the same manner you use them on RED One, manual, or by use of a 3rd party accessory. For using Nikon DX G series lenses on Epic and Scarlet, which don't have a manual iris ring, I would expect someone like Underdahl to make a DX mount adaptor similar to the one they made for use right now on RED One - which uses a manual little brass knob on the bottom of the mount to control iris.

There are some 35mm stills lenses that breathe very little, and hold focus throughout a zoom very well. even on a lens that breathes, breathing is only a problem when you rack focus during a shot. Same with focus changing dirung a zoom - its only a problem if you zoom during the actual take. If you use stills lenses on RED as variable primes - simply to re-frame shots - you have no problems with breathing and/or zoom focus loss.

Especially on the new DSMC RED models, the new RED Electronic Lenses could be an excellent choice, because as Jim has verified, they will fully "talk" with the new camera brains - and they feature auto focus and image stabilization. I expect the new RED Electronic Lenses to breathe very little, and to hold focus throughout a zoom. The December 3 RED announcement brochure has info on the new mounts and the new electronic lenses.

As they mention regularly, all RED announcements are subject to change until they are announced as final specifications.

I saw those same things over at ScarletUser, Steve. And while I hate to sound like I'm overreacting or trying to second guess Jim, that is probably the worst news I've heard about DSMC so far. I guess when I really think about it from Jim's perspective, it makes sense, but I was really looking forward to buying a few new Nikon primes without an aperture ring. Obviously, aside from ethical and technical reasoning, it makes sense for RED to gently nudge us toward fully compatible RED products. But as someone who's already $1500 deep in Nikon glass, I was hoping I could keep the collection going. I really hope it's not too late to reconsider, at least to give us the basics (electronic iris control), but if not, I understand and I'll work around it and embrace the rest of the groovy stuff about DSMC. Anyway, thanks all.
Peace,

-Harry

 

[Andrew clemson]

Iris control

Iris control

Hmmm, I was kinda hoping the new cameras would have lens mounts to at least control the iris on the gelded "G" Nikon Lenses. I can live without AF. I just bought a shiny new 70-200VR and was hoping to put it on a shiny new scarlet sometime soon! Will we need something like the long valley GDX mount to operate the iris?

On a side note, I see a lot of talk about DX lenses, what with the similar sensor sizes and all. Would there be a problem with a non DX lens such as the 70-200VR?

 

[Lee Saxon]

On a side note, I see a lot of talk about DX lenses, what with the similar sensor sizes and all. Would there be a problem with a non DX lens such as the 70-200VR?

No, DX and full-frame (or 'FX' as Nikon now calls it) Nikon lenses have exactly the same mount.

In fact, I'm concerned that it may be the DX lenses that are a problem. They're designed for a ~ 24x16mm sensor and I wonder if the image circle is big enough for the 30mm wide S35 Mysterium-X

 

[Liam Hall]

No, DX and full-frame (or 'FX' as Nikon now calls it) Nikon lenses have exactly the same mount.

In fact, I'm concerned that it may be the DX lenses that are a problem. They're designed for a ~ 24x16mm sensor and I wonder if the image circle is big enough for the 30mm wide S35 Mysterium-X

If my math is right the DX lens format should be fine.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong I'm s*** at geometry