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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Nikon Drops the Ball, D3s Only 720p

For some videos taken with the new D3S there are some youtube links at nikonrumors here:

http://nikonrumors.com/2009/10/14/nikon-d3s-videos.aspx#more-7823

I am also shooting with a D700 and using the video function on the D90 (which has terrible rolling shutter problems) and was wondering about an upgrade that I hoped would have more useable video. The jury is still out on how useable the D3S video mode is. People have been making great videos with the DSLR cameras but not many have been for paid work.

Gary
 
Jeff Dunant said:
How long is it going to take for these companies to grow half a brain and actually release a camera that can do video properly?
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That's kind of unfair. The models you mention are very much aimed at pro photographers, for whom video is a frill, and for which many of them have no wish to pay extra. I'd say the only reason video is even included on the 3ds and (I assume) on the soon-to-be-announced 1DIV is to assess what level of demand exists for the ultra-high-ISO performance and (claimed) reduced rolling shutter, farther down the price ladder.

Nikon doesn't even have a camcorder in the pro or consumer spaces, indeed it seems like they were slightly taken aback by the surge of enthusiasm for the D90. I'm sure they're now considering such a product - they'd be able to grab a sizeable market share if they played their cards right. And that's a big IF...consider all the decisions that have to be made inside the camera, and the fact that they have no experience with the exterior form factor. Long-term success in the video market will be enormously influenced by the design, marketing, and price choices for a first product. I can't blame them for being extremely cautious before making an expensive commitment.
 
Eddy Robinson said:
T.. pro photographers, for whom video is a frill...
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I dont think so - Im a 'pro photographer' feeling that I NEED to get digital motion sorted and quickly

I dont think Im the only one

I dont think of myself as a 'pro photographer', but someone who provides images for clients

The kind of images they want, as ad revenue moves towards the web, which can move, motion is a requirement to stay in business

SMM
 
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Personally I'll take a solid 720P without aliasing or skew over what Canon calls 1080P in the 5DMII. I don't yet know if that's the case but the videos show one thing and that's superior high ISO noise control and a distinctly Nikon color palette, which I personally prefer. Still, it's important to remember that the video in the D3s is intended only for photojournalists that need to create web content as well as stills on assignment. It is not meant for filmmaking, although I think with 12,500 ISO this could be a particularly compelling Doco cam.
 
Evin Grant said:
Still, it's important to remember that the video in the D3s is intended only for photojournalists that need to create web content as well as stills on assignment. It is not meant for filmmaking...
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That's pretty much the same thing I took away from their marketing speak. I think Nikon themselves see it as a news gathering feature, nothing more.
 
Damn I wish you could build a camera by cutting and pasting technology. Everything required exists but (almost) nobody is yet putting all the pieces together in the one package.

Well, almost nobody. Hi Jim!
 
Evin Grant said:
Personally I'll take a solid 720P without aliasing or skew over what Canon calls 1080P in the 5DMII. I don't yet know if that's the case but the videos show one thing and that's superior high ISO noise control and a distinctly Nikon color palette, which I personally prefer. Still, it's important to remember that the video in the D3s is intended only for photojournalists that need to create web content as well as stills on assignment. It is not meant for filmmaking, although I think with 12,500 ISO this could be a particularly compelling Doco cam.
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Id take the extra res of the 5/7d than be in 720 with skew.

check out the rolling shutter at 2:10

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R46ca9zBP4A&hd=1
 
BUT, read the press release carefully, sounds like Nikon has got something figured out:

Fully implimented contrast-detect motion-tracking AF while video recording. Your answer, Canon?
 
Eric Ferguson said:
BUT, read the press release carefully, sounds like Nikon has got something figured out:

Fully implimented contrast-detect motion-tracking AF while video recording. Your answer, Canon?
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Canon's "answer" is non MJPEG recording.
 
There's a little skew there but no worse than I've seen on my Red.
Mjpeg is not ideal but neither is .H264. With either format you have to nail exposure and color because there isn't any room for post manipulations. They can both look good under the right circumstances though.
 
Nice little demo flick from Nikon but that is all it is. You could not sell footage shot with this camera. It might be OK for an occasional blog entry but I think I will wait to see what Scarlet brings.
 
Evin Grant said:
There's a little skew there but no worse than I've seen on my Red.
Mjpeg is not ideal but neither is .H264. With either format you have to nail exposure and color because there isn't any room for post manipulations. They can both look good under the right circumstances though.
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Im curious about mjpeg - I understood mjpeg / photojpeg to be a considerable leap above H264 up the ladder towards raw... while obviously far from raw / compressed - I thought mjpeg with a high bit rate
( 80Mb/ps + ) was quite good at preserving color / detail etc.. Obviously its not ideal as raw or uncompressed - but in terms of grading / getting a more neutral color space i thought it would be a step up from H264 in that sense?

I mean in terms of codecs that you would work / grade with - after photo or motion jpeg - the next step up would be animation and then raw then uncompressed right ?

also can someone clarify that mjpeg quality is irrelevant to it being in .MOV or .AVI ( the nikonD3s is .avi apparently)
 
Jeff Dunant said:
For those people who had high hopes for the video features of the D3s, sorry to say this but the camera can only do 720p. This just leaves the Canon 1D Mark IV, but well, Canon hasn't been very smart lately either.

How long is it going to take for these companies to grow half a brain and actually release a camera that can do video properly?

Amazing how Red knows what the customers wants, yet these conglomerates that have been around for ages keep missing the target.

http://www.engadget.com/2009/10/13/nikon-d3s-leaked-by-uk-press-expected-to-ship-december-with-imp/
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Well guys, you have got to think about it from a business standpoint. Video, for the most part, is a gimic feature on DSLR's right now. You gotta remember that DSLR's are simply designed to take STILL shots and not video. DSLRS will NEVER be video cameras. Ok, with that in mind think about it from Nikon or Canon's position. Why include professional video features on their high end professional STILL cameras (ie, D3, 700, and 1D) when the majority of their users are photographers demanding the best still camera. Obviously to make the most profit and satisfy the majority of their users they've gotta focus on the still image aspects of their cameras first. Now don't get me wrong, the 5D takes incredible video (still waiting to mess with the 7D) but they've still got a long long way to go before DSLRs can compete with pro video cameras.

Just my 2 cents...take it or leave it
 
And selectable frame rates, incl 60fps at 720p, and extensive manual control, yeah yeah, I know. But it's good to see that someone is prepared to use the motors in all those SLR lenses for something while shooting. AF implimentation in vDSLRs has been abysmal.
 
jchema said:
Well guys, you have got to think about it from a business standpoint. Video, for the most part, is a gimic feature on DSLR's right now. You gotta remember that DSLR's are simply designed to take STILL shots and not video. DSLRS will NEVER be video cameras. Ok, with that in mind think about it from Nikon or Canon's position. Why include professional video features on their high end professional STILL cameras (ie, D3, 700, and 1D) when the majority of their users are photographers demanding the best still camera. Obviously to make the most profit and satisfy the majority of their users they've gotta focus on the still image aspects of their cameras first. Now don't get me wrong, the 5D takes incredible video (still waiting to mess with the 7D) but they've still got a long long way to go before DSLRs can compete with pro video cameras.

Just my 2 cents...take it or leave it
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Once upon a time I was happy photographer I had a nikon F4 and lots of film stocks to choose

This rig could please my clients, I had no desire to upgrade

Then the market went digital in 1999

I spent 10 years on an upgrade path buying flawed DSLRs every year looking to get back to that F4 client pleasing standard

Nikon brought out the D3 and gave me that 'F4' standard and my desire to upgrade stopped

If Nikon understand me they know that Im not going to keep feeding them any more because Im happy for stills with my D3

My stills upgrade lust has dried up and that is bad bad news for nikons pocket

Now motion is something my clients will want, Im in the market for motion - Nikon have a new hook to pull at my wallet

Thats why they must provide motion - because it will keep me feeding them cash

BUT

Im not dumb, I know what is needed to produce half decent motion, Manual Control, XLR input, controlled sound, decent codec etc

Bringing this to market will give Nikon a new line to dry my wallet, especially if they drip feed it to me

Nikon must provide else Scarlet gets my money

Thats why video is not a gimmick in DSLRs

Why dont I just get a regular camera ??

Well I have an EX1 but operating alone in journalistic environments it is too heavy to ADD to my stills gear and I want to use my fancy stills glass

Another reason why decent motion is not a gimmick
 
Let me rephrase that...at it this current point in time...its very hard to use motion on the DSLR's out right now. The Canon 5D looks great, but Nikon hasn't IMO jumped on the Video bandwagon yet. Canon is kicking their butts on that front because they provide 1080p, multiple frame rates, as well as microphone inputs. I would love to see Nikon rise to the spot that canon is right now with their video compatible DSLRS. I myself, have always been a Nikon guy.
 
morgan_moore said:
Here is a taste of why I want motion on my DSLR, even though I am professional stills photographer

http://www.vimeo.com/7087825

S
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A perfect example of the kind of use that Scarlet and Epic will be excellent for since there is no difference in the image quality between stills and motion acquisition. Both are full resolution raw format.
Motion purposely shot for support of and extraction of stills will require very different techniques than motion shot for cinematic qualities though. They are inherently very different disciplines.
But I do look forward to having a single camera system that can do both without compromise.
 
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