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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Next Steps for Scarlet Owners??

Mathias Erichsen said:
Wow! Finaly got my Scarlet Draginized and must say it is amazing to be able to shoot 5K 25p (and above) + 6K for stills! I'm really glad that I changed my upgrade path in the last minute and went Dragon instead of Epic MX.
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I've been trying to explain this to people... Glad you see the light. Welcome to Dragon!!! Enjoy https://vimeo.com/122137422
 
Mark, that video I posted above in my post was shot on low light OLPF at iso 1280 and above. Pretty clean. Took the video just after a storm, so it was still a little overcast outside.

The company I make films with has another two Scarlet Dragons of their own with both OLPFs. So we did a test a few weeks back with just candle light. One camera had the LLO (low light optimized) and the other camera had the STH (Skin tones highlight). The Low light OLPF is much cleaner at higher ISO's. In terms of major color differences, the Dragon color 2 matches the two OLPFs pretty well, but you do find that the LLO has slight warmer look, and the STH has a teal look to it. But it is easily fixable and the footage can be matched in regards to color, but the difference in noise is noticeable.

Depending on your shooting style and amount of light used, the LLO is a good thing to have. Funnily, when showing people the tests between the two filters, most seem to opt for the LLO as they preferred the look.
 
We aren't upgrading for now for a few reasons.

1. We aren't hired for our camera (we own a few), we get hired for our team. If we need a different camera (such as an epic dragon, f55 or arri alexa or amira, we can hire them).

2. With all the postage back and forth + current Aussie dollar, even at 9,500 US it's just not worth it IMO for the upgrade.

We'll wait a little longer and purchase a new higher end camera in a year or two. Will that be a dragon, weapon, something new from Sony... (Alexa I would imagine to be WAY out of our price range, but worth hiring) Time will tell.

Before long with the weapon making an appearance I think we will see the price on the Scarlet Dragon's go down somewhere near 10,000 or lower. If you don't need bleeding edge tech and are okay (personally and business model wise) to be one step behind the new big thing you can still create stella images (and worthwhile stories) at a much cheaper price.
 
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Dean Butler said:
We aren't upgrading for now for a few reasons.

1. We aren't hired for our camera (we own a few), we get hired for our team...
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I felt this way with my Scarlet and the last few projects.

The crew has been the same for a few and the results and experience have been amazing/fun.

Sure its all relative since Ive never had to shoot with anything else.

Here is one Im very proud off :)
 
Dean Butler said:
We aren't upgrading for now for a few reasons.

1. We aren't hired for our camera (we own a few), we get hired for our team. If we need a different camera (such as an epic dragon, f55 or arri alexa or amira, we can hire them).
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+1 As the upgrade looks great, I think the majority of the noteworthy work in this thread is on MX and while we all want better everything, I can in no way "outshoot" my Scarlet for now. Kinda like my Ducati 1098. It ain't a Panigale, but I am a ways from maxing it out on the track, and still having a blast.
 
Scot Yount said:
+1 As the upgrade looks great, I think the majority of the noteworthy work in this thread is on MX and while we all want better everything, I can in no way "outshoot" my Scarlet for now. Kinda like my Ducati 1098. It ain't a Panigale, but I am a ways from maxing it out on the track, and still having a blast.
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Here's the thing - I too think that the MX sensor is kicks ass, and out-delivers what all of my distributors currently want (1080p). BUT the 4 or 5 years of 4K masters that I have in the can, are what have led to my current round of distribution deals. Even though 4K delivery is negligible at this point, and probably a few years away from the mainstream (see this thread) ALL of my distribution channels are giving preferential treatment to those who are shooting / mastering in 4K, ALL of my distribution channels are giving extra-preferential treatment to those who are moving beyond 4K.

For me, the upgrade cost will be recouped quickly. For me, just announcing that I'm moving beyond 4K has already paid dividends. Whatever WPN brings when I upgrade next year will also pay dividends.

Perhaps If I was relying on work for hire, rather than content ownership I might think differently.

Evolve or die!
 
If a Scarlet-X owner doesn't upgrade this year, could we potentially be stuck with an upgradeable camera body if MX-Dragon Upgrades are stopped and Epic-X is phased out? I really wanted to upgrade to an Epic-X at least but can't afford it in the short amount of time I've been hearing I have (June 2015)..
 
Scott Lamoreaux said:
If a Scarlet-X owner doesn't upgrade this year, could we potentially be stuck with an upgradeable camera body if MX-Dragon Upgrades are stopped and Epic-X is phased out? I really wanted to upgrade to an Epic-X at least but can't afford it in the short amount of time I've been hearing I have (June 2015)..
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You will still be able to get your Epic-X. You will just have to do it through a private sale. There may be a few lingering BT's for a while after the upgrades are done. That may be the best place to buy one in the short term. MX is EOL

Technically our Scarlet-X bodies will not be upgradeable once Red stops performing the upgrade so no, we won't be stuck with an upgradeable camera body. ;-) Besides if someone is willing to take it off of your hands you are never truly 'stuck with it'.
 
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Jamon Lewis said:
Terry I think you've been the voice of this dilemma. I am and have been in the same boat. For me post is the biggest factor. Even though there will be a new RCX that uses more of the GPU of your computer, I'm sure you will need a computer with beefy specs to handle especially dragon footage, so with even the latest MBP a Rocket or Rocket-X for Dragon footage would be a welcome help especially if your like me and already have $5k plus already into a Rocket. So it's either Scarlet to a very capable Epic MX and still be able to use the Rocket I already have or Scarlet Dragon and have a Red Rocket and that it will be completely useless with Dragon footage (Please somebody tell me that I'm wrong and that something has changed on this front).

Last night I saw the trailer "The Age of Adeline" then IMDB it and saw that it was shot with Dragon i'm like "Geez, I want a dragon!!" Then when I saw the trailer for "Serena" starring Bradley Cooper and Jennifer Lawrence which was shot on Epic MX, i'm like "If Epic MX was good enough to shoot this with, what would I have to complain about if a Epic MX was the only camera I could have for the rest of my life?!?!"

With that said, the price dropping back down and the fact of having the OPTION go forward has basically had me make up my mind to go Scarlet Dragon. NOW to your point about the SSD, the current 1.8 system is fine for current Dragon specs so I'll roll with it for now and if I do take the option to "Weaponize" the mini mag transition will just be something i'll have to factor in when upgrading, the current 1.8 mags are fine for Scarlet Dragon now.
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YES! Good comments, Jamon! Honestly having bought into the $9.5 Scarlet D upgrade but not yet sending in the camera, I really hate to say it but the Epic MX trade in option still holds a fair bit of allure for me!

Unlike my "soon to be" Dragon, this camera will work native files with my CS6 mastering suite and match what I've shot more easily although since most of it is just B roll, I'm not sure it will matter that much! Of course, I'd have to trade in #00123 serial number which is kind of like trading in a 1909 SVDB penny! Talk about temptation with regard to selling but I am hopeful the Dragon upgrade will make this camera a bit more viable for future mastering projects. Part me still wants to grab the Epic MX and be done with wondering how Scarlet Dragon will improve with new upgrades. Still that really would mean getting off the merry go round of wondering what's behind door number 0123!

Of course buying another Scarlet MX for $5K or less would be an interesting option for next year too, LOL!
 
Mark T Workman said:
YES! Good comments, Jamon! Honestly having bought into the $9.5 Scarlet D upgrade but not yet sending in the camera, I really hate to say it but the Epic MX trade in option still holds a fair bit of allure for me!

Unlike my "soon to be" Dragon, this camera will work native files with my CS6 mastering suite and match what I've shot more easily although since most of it is just B roll, I'm not sure it will matter that much! Of course, I'd have to trade in #00123 serial number which is kind of like trading in a 1909 SVDB penny! Talk about temptation with regard to selling but I am hopeful the Dragon upgrade will make this camera a bit more viable for future mastering projects. Part me still wants to grab the Epic MX and be done with wondering how Scarlet Dragon will improve with new upgrades. Still that really would mean getting off the merry go round of wondering what's behind door number 0123!

Of course buying another Scarlet MX for $5K or less would be an interesting option for next year too, LOL!
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We're STILL in the same boat, LOL. Funny I paid for the Scarlet MX> Dragon upgrade, my camera will be working until right up until the upgrade deadline. A rep at RED said, "If you miss the deadline for some reason we'll have to give you a refund." It was then I realized (which was obvious once I thought about it) that my money isn't spent until I actually send the camera in for the upgrade & that I could just switch my upgrade to Epic MX, so the I can't tell you what the allure has been for me!

Up until this day, every time I look at my Scarlet footage I ask myself "Do I really need to upgrade at all?" TBH, for me personally all i've ever wanted was 4K at what ever frame I wanted (with in reason of course) and 5K at 24fps (up to 48 would be nice) because I don't like to ND above 1.2 as I see a loss in resolution when do so and a wider FOV. I love the strengths of MX and honestly like the challenges of working around the "flaws", call me crazy but I can't tell you how many times i've been asked "you shot that with what?!?!?!" so i'm used to working around deficiencies ;-).

I feel your pain... Thanks RED for choices!! :thumbsup::thumbsup:
 
Sold mine. as much as I love RED, I just couldn't stay in the owners boat. Will rent when I need. Preordered the ursa mini for projects I don't have a budget to rent red on
 
I am a new Scarlet Dragon owner. I shot a short film in broad daylight with the Scarlet MX with excellent results. I couldn't believe how well it held the harsh highlights, the detail in the shadows, and how stunning the graded footage looked. I had never shot with a camera this capable. I was all set to buy a used MX until I saw this http://indiecinemaacademy.com/red-epic-dragon-vs-red-epic-mx-hype-real-part-01-video/ Right around 6:00 he shows the high end roll off compared to MX and Alexa. It's pretty substantial. That sold me.

With the little time I've had with it so far, the skin tones appear better to me but honestly, in daylight, I thought the skin tones on MX were perfect.
The new Dragon was way more than I had hoped to pay for a Scarlet but I'm glad I did it. The images are amazing
 
I'm happy with my MX, i am excited about having it upgraded soon.

But there are some second thoughts about my next steps. I had planned to upgrade my kit. Now its the same situation with modules as it already was with REDMAGs. We know they don't have a life beyond EPIC/SCARLET.

So, the big question for me is, will i put money in modules and 1.8"-REDMAGs or will i save up everything for the next step.
 
I just received my Dragonized Scarlet back. Haven't even had a chance to shoot anything yet. For right now, I think I am happy to sit tight and see what develops. To me, it seems like there are a lot of ways forward for RED owners. Weapon is only one of them.
 
Is there anybody who isn't looking to "move up the chain" (minus a few accessory upgrades) and continue producing with the same basic RED?

Serious question.
 
Luke K said:
Is there anybody who isn't looking to "move up the chain" (minus a few accessory upgrades) and continue producing with the same basic RED?

Serious question.
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What do you mean by "same basic RED?"
 
Luke K said:
Is there anybody who isn't looking to "move up the chain" (minus a few accessory upgrades) and continue producing with the same basic RED?

Serious question.
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I do. I have a Scarlet Dragon. I was waiting for the Weapon. I will obviously not upgrade it.
Then I heard about the Scarlet D -> Epic D upgrade. I thought about it a few days, but finally I will not go there either. Many reasons: I don't want to own a super expensive camera, the Scarlet Dragon is already expensive and I don't want to become paranoid with my camera, I just need to bring it everywhere, my SSD cards are already emptying super fast in 5K, I can't imagine in 6K, I don't want to have troubles with my lenses with the 6K FOV, 5K is the real S35 size, it's perfect, I didn't notice any compression problem with the scarlet D so far and anyway I like to add a tiny bit of grain, and concerning HFR I shoot sometimes in slowmo but I never use them at the end because it looks cheesy too often, anyway 60/75fps are enough, ultra HFR are a bit boring to watch and it's often used because there is nothing else to tell. Instead of upgrading I will get some acccessories, maybe a gimbal, I just bought a Blackmagic Pocket too. I will just spend these 2-3 next years shooting with my Scarlet which is much better than the Red One MX, and so many movies, music videos, commercials were shot with the Red One that I can't see how I can be limited with my camera. Deciding to stay there is the best decision I took. I feel relieved not to have to think about the upgrades, the announcements, the prices anymore.
 
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Luke K said:
Is there anybody who isn't looking to "move up the chain" (minus a few accessory upgrades) and continue producing with the same basic RED?

Serious question.
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I'm staying on MX for the time being, and I'm content to do it.
 
Scott Crawley said:
I'm staying on MX for the time being, and I'm content to do it.
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Me too. $12,500 is not worth the upgrade in my case. The old price...maybe.

My plan is to drop $6K on an Ursa Mini/CFast & I'll own two awesome 4K/4.6K raw shooters which each have their own strengths & weaknesses. I owned the BMCC + Speedbooster for a little while and it was almost as good as my Scarlet MX. I'm pretty sure the Ursa Mini will surpass it.
 
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