Next Steps for Scarlet Owners??

[Terry VerHaar]

After a couple days of obsessing over all the news and hype, I actually might find myself back where you are, Eric. Maybe I should just do the Scarlet to Epic trade-in? And, maybe I don't even need to rush into it insofar as I don't think a time limit has been put on that option yet. Maybe shooting Epic for the next 12-24 months would be just fine and I could see how things wash out.


Hmmmmm. I am sure I'll change my mind several times before NAB.

 

[Scott Crawley]

I am a bit of a gear hound and I like to have the greatest new thing. Much of that drive originated in the days when everything sub $100,000 was crap. There were varying degrees of crap but it was all sub-par. Then it made sense to jump on the latest, greatest thing. That is no longer the case and I still need to pinch myself to remember just what I have in my hands with Scarlet; a fully capable cinema camera.

Over the last fifteen years or so of running my own business and juggling tech gear I have realized that it can be financial folly to buy tech before you actually, really NEED it. I realize that need tends to be a relative thing that is defined differently by people depending upon many factors and some of those are strictly emotional. It is for that reason I question my own needs so rigorously.

 

[Glen Powell]

I'm going to upgrade my two Scarlets to Scarlet Dragons -

Both Epic Dragon, and Scarlet Dragon will be able to migrate to Weapon; so at this point I'm going to skip the path that I had originally though I was going to follow which was
Scarlet --> Epic --> Epic Dragon. Instead opt for Scarlet Dragon --> Unknown leap of faith that RED will offer a generous upgrade path to weapon.

I'm not worried or freaked out like a lot of people seem to be - I mean really? Guess what... on the first day of NAB all the biggies will unveil their new cameras, and in every case current owners will (if they want to stay at the bleeding edge) need to go out and essentially start from scratch with No warning (other than you know something will happen at NAB), and No 'upgrade' path. They'll have to buy some new proprietary battery packs, if they want raw they'll have to buy some new proprietary raw recorder, etc, etc, etc - repeat each year...

Even if I wasn't going to upgrade - I know that the current Scarlets will produce better than great images, and for the next few years will be far in advance of the otter guys.

Also these two cameras owe me nothing; Zero$, they've paid for themselves on productions so many times over that I've never once thought about their resale value. They're just a hammer that I use to make a living.

 

[Terry VerHaar]

Very sound thoughts, Scott.

And in another moment of schizophrenia, I realize, upon seeing the new Alexa mini, that the one feature I REALLY would like to have is a small former factor; suitable for flying on my Helix.

 

[Ryan Hamblin]

I am kinda hoping once the upgrade from mx to dragon ends, that the upgrade from scarlet to epic becomes more affordable

 

[Terry VerHaar]

I am kinda hoping once the upgrade from mx to dragon ends, that the upgrade from scarlet to epic becomes more affordable

Shhhh - if we drum up a whole bunch of interest in this, RED might think there is high demand and decide not to lower the price! lol

 

[Brian Merlen]

as someone not currently owning a scarlet mx (for quite some time)...id go for scarlet dragon to keep your options open...like today

 

[Grant Smucker]

How long can RED keep upping their prices by $10k everytime a new camera comes out? eventually they will have to lower the price of old models and new versions will fall into the same price tag. I'm thinking Dragon drops in price this fall when they discontinue MX. If this were the case, you could get an epic Dragon for $17.5k, which if you do it now (only 1/2 year earlier) you will pay $19k plus lose your current scarlet (so $24k).

 

[Eric Santiago]

as someone not currently owning a scarlet mx (for quite some time)...id go for scarlet dragon to keep your options open...like today

For me it wont do.

The US > CAD conversion is insanely high at the moment.

I can think of better things with my 14K CAD such as gimbal, lenses, watercase, etc...

Things that better my shooting capabilities.

Ive invested a lot more than just the body for my Scarlet and I would do her disservice if I gave up this quickly (Fall 2012 BT purchase).

 

[Terry VerHaar]

How long can RED keep upping their prices by $10k everytime a new camera comes out? eventually they will have to lower the price of old models and new versions will fall into the same price tag. I'm thinking Dragon drops in price this fall when they discontinue MX. If this were the case, you could get an epic Dragon for $17.5k, which if you do it now (only 1/2 year earlier) you will pay $19k plus lose your current scarlet (so $24k).

You can always buy "last year's model" for less; especially in technology. The strategy here is to try and stay in the upgrade path such as to minimize the outlay over the long term while having reasonably current gear. Everyone's needs are a little different, so "reasonably current" is always

And, if you wait until the fall for Dragon, you lose an opportunity for some discounts on Weapon.

 

[Zakaree Sandberg]

I have a strong feeling there will not be a lowere tier of weapon out side of the non carbon version. So upgrading to weapon from scarlet dragon may be a very hefty financial investment on the upgrade. It's left me in a place where I think I'll just keep shooting with my scarlet. Even when I deliver 4k. My 3k slomo with a hair of sharpening is nearly identical to 4k. Most of my clients never even need the 4k master... Though we always master in 4k. It would be awesome to have weapon and I'm sure it will be amazing but I'll have to use it in rental situations when the budget justifies.

I'm worried the new rumored camera from Panasonic may have to become my day to day camera when I can't rent a weapon. Which means I may have to sell scarlet. That will break my heart. I've shot nothing but red for my paying projects since the red one came out. Def will kill me to not have one anymore

unless your renting your camera like clockwork, and getting a nice return (highly unlikely now days)
your scarlet, as is, should be fine for a long long time. There is really very little change in cameras now, except maybe on the software side of things (color space.. so on)
the obvious changes being in resolution, frame rate capabilities, and compression ratios.

I personally hardly shoot high speed, I am glad i have an epic though for when I need it.
I'm happy at 5:1 (my stuff is web based and if I ever have the opportunity to shoot something for the big screen, I will rent a system)
and I really couldn't care less about the resolution game.

Red One MX, Epic MX, Scarlet MX are all still great cameras..

the OG alexa is what 8 years old? still out there shooting.

your good , no need to worry. If it aint broke, don't fix it.

I think it would be much more awesome to use any camera upgrade money towards a narrative film, or trip to cuba.

 

[Eric Santiago]

I think it would be much more awesome to use any camera upgrade money towards a narrative film, or trip to cuba.

Nice!!

A trip to a hot place with script and crew in hand

 

[Mike P.]

As a few people have mentioned (as I had in the past, before the Dec. 1st price increase), when I take revenue-generating potential into consideration, the $9500 can be used to open up far more avenues for me than having our single camera upgraded to a 5k-limited version of the latest sensor (which, even as a Dragon, would be playing second/third/fourth fiddle to Epic-X/Epic-Dragon/Weapon-X)...

It's not a no-brainer when $9500 worth of other kit -- Gimbal, perm-balanced 2nd Scarlet-X for that gimbal, 4k Drone, etc -- would cost the same and would more than likely generate 2x-4x their cost in the next 6-12months (or, in other words, definitely generate more revenue than a single Scarlet-Dragon brain would over a single Scarlet-X brain). I'm reminded of those comic strips where the husband/wife come home and tell their spouse, 'I <superfluously> spent $9500 today! But don't worry, everything was 50% off!!!'

Truth be told, if the Dragon roll out has shown anything, it's that the upgraders get the tip of the beta-testing spear, and by the time the standalone brain hits the store, you don't have to deal with nearly as many of the initial kinks... I personally dislike the idea of having to spend the downtime and hundreds of dollars (CAD) shipping the camera back and forth to get things like OLPF upgrades and swappable OLPF mounts, etc. If all I have to do is sit still on 4k/raw/~s35 in the meantime (another year most likely), I actually see it as a benefit...

 

[Mike Garrick]

I sort held back commenting about this issue . Last year I sold my Scarlet Brian for cash then brought a new SD. Change over cost was around 8k ish less than Reds upgrade costs (more dollars in the bank for me).

Anyway IMO if I'm paying for an upgrade I'm not investing in old tech (epic) . This has been born out by recent announcements, Epic unless you pay another 9.5 k is a future dead end . As Mike P. Points out we all have better things to do with our dollars, that is certainly my case .

So the options for Scarlet owners is take my route OR pay $9.5 k to SD. OR Invest another $19k for ED. And then I assume pay another $9.5k for Weapon upgrade (either SD or ED.) OR Use existing Scarlet for a few more years & suck more value out if it . Then get rid of it for another camera system.

I guess my point in all this, I would save my $9.5 k (epic upgrade) leapfrog to Dragon , be prepared for the price penalty to weaponise my SD to ED level and not pay $9.5k for older tech, which will depreciate faster.

Ps with the release of Arri Alexa "mini" going the epic dragon path to Weapon is getting close to the price of a Mini . What would you rather?

 

[Wendell Adkins]

Most of our shooting is from drones with our Scarlet. For the last couple of years, clients have requested Epic about 2 to 1 over our Scarlet so either they supply the Epic or we rent one. I planned to upgrade to Epic X before yesterday but now I think SD makes sense for us. We have an enormous amount of time invested in making reliable Red haulers so I don't plan to jump ship quite yet.

 

[Terry VerHaar]

Most of our shooting is from drones with our Scarlet. For the last couple of years, clients have requested Epic about 2 to 1 over our Scarlet so either they supply the Epic or we rent one. I planned to upgrade to Epic X before yesterday but now I think SD makes sense for us. We have an enormous amount of time invested in making reliable Red haulers so I don't plan to jump ship quite yet.

The Arri announcement doesn't change anything for me. I am just hoping it causes RED to release more information about Weapon before NAB!

I have been going back and forth about this and currently fall on the side of going Scarlet Dragon, pre-NAB. There seems like nothing to lose - except cash flow. Oh well. :smiley:

I get the higher dynamic range, more frame rates than current Scarlet, higher resolution, swappable OLPFs, continued use of my current support gear, new color science AND, the potential benefits of later going to the mysterious Weapon. Seems like it keeps me on the train a little longer. Even if the ticket to stay gets higher later on, at least I'll be there to make the decision.

 

[Chad Peter]

I'm absolutely torn. Having just picked up my Scarlet MX last November, I was planning on going EPIC MX --> Dragon, give or take a year, but this pretty much puts the nail in the coffin. I'd have to liquidate a bit too much just to even go the Scarlet Dragon route and not be left behind. Probably just going to eat my Scarlet MX and ride it to its ever-widening grave.

 

[Eric Santiago]

I'm absolutely torn. Having just picked up my Scarlet MX last November, I was planning on going EPIC MX --> Dragon, give or take a year, but this pretty much puts the nail in the coffin. I'd have to liquidate a bit too much just to even go the Scarlet Dragon route and not be left behind. Probably just going to eat my Scarlet MX and ride it to its ever-widening grave.

Sorry to hear how your feelings are towards your purchase.

After shooting with mine for TV pilot and a short over the last five days, I would have to say that only once during the project required me to have an EPIC.

It was for a HFR shot of blood dripping on an angle surface.

Other than that, the Scarlets Color Science is winning locals over in all kinds of conditions here

 

[Clayton Taylor]

I'm absolutely torn. Having just picked up my Scarlet MX last November, I was planning on going EPIC MX --> Dragon, give or take a year, but this pretty much puts the nail in the coffin. I'd have to liquidate a bit too much just to even go the Scarlet Dragon route and not be left behind. Probably just going to eat my Scarlet MX and ride it to its ever-widening grave.

Made the move from DSLR world to the Scarlet in September 2014... Right there with you 6 months later.

 

[Wendell Adkins]

Scarlet shipped out to Irvine today. I have to admit I'm pretty excited to get it back Dragonized and start putting it through the paces.