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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

News...

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No one ever doubted RED would deliver it was the unknowing that was the breaking point.

Now we have another date to work with "5 weeks" till we get a schedule which is great news and something we can base our calculations with.

So I don't feel in the dark anymore, at least there is some candle light in the corner and I can confidently do my business.

Thanks Jim for your feedback.
 
Anyone with any sense could tell that original dates for shipping were way too optimistic. I mean, we all knew how far along the project was at any given moment -- Franky, Boris, etc -- so how would a camera in such an early-to-middle stage of development possibly ship finished products to people in first quarter 07? Or even summer?

With camera 400, I figured all along that we were looking at fall ship dates, and probably a very good chance we'd get it by end of the year.

As others have pointed out, Jim has always been careful to telegraph very loudly and openly that these dates are subject to change.

I'm sure most of us have been involved in one kind of entrepreneurial effort or another -- whether trying to start a business or just making a film or something. There is one rock solid lesson I have learned with every business effort I have made:

It's going to cost three times as much and take twice as long as you figured.
 
Exact-u-mundo!

Tom said:
Anyone with any sense could tell that original dates for shipping were way too optimistic. I mean, we all knew how far along the project was at any given moment -- Franky, Boris, etc -- so how would a camera in such an early-to-middle stage of development possibly ship finished products to people in first quarter 07? Or even summer?

With camera 400, I figured all along that we were looking at fall ship dates, and probably a very good chance we'd get it by end of the year.

As others have pointed out, Jim has always been careful to telegraph very loudly and openly that these dates are subject to change.

I'm sure most of us have been involved in one kind of entrepreneurial effort or another -- whether trying to start a business or just making a film or something. There is one rock solid lesson I have learned with every business effort I have made:

It's going to cost three times as much and take twice as long as you figured.
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Jim,
Opening this thread you reported a few issues/supplier delays.
But more importantly, how will Red hardware/software/data perform when integrated with 3rd party hardware/software.
This has the potential to have an even greater impact on Red?
Do you want suggestions from this forum on UAT scope/approaches, or even systematic beta testing in a variety of workflows?
We’d very much like to help you!

Cheers,

Dave
 
The workflow part of this seems pretty straight-forward. REDCINE works. REDCODE is supported in FCP and the conversion to ProRes works fine. Scratch supports REDCODE natively. Plenty of proven choices. Our delay is caused by several hardware issues... that we are working on.

Jim
 
Jannard said:
The workflow part of this seems pretty straight-forward. REDCINE works. REDCODE is supported in FCP and the conversion to ProRes works fine. Scratch supports REDCODE natively. Plenty of proven choices. Our delay is caused by several hardware issues... that we are working on.

Jim
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Well, I for one am willing to wait for it. Thanks for keeping us in the loop.
 
A handful of weeks to perfect a few hardware issues on the camera seems to logically leave a few extra weeks for the team members not working on the camera to add some features and goodies to their own babies... be it software, integration or accessories. That's some good news mixed in there if you ask me!

That is, unless everybody over there really is a special-forces ninja who has mastered all trades... ;) :)
 
Jannard said:
Jay,

Notes like this one do matter. And we are trying to get everything done as quickly as possible. But we have been very careful to say that the schedule could change at any minute becuase this is such a difficult trick. Given that, everyone should naturally have a contingency plan for their projects... and hope they don't need them.

Jim
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I have a contingency plan, but I hate it, because it's old-fashioned and expensive and not as good as Red. I really don't want to use it. In fact, I think I'd rather change the shoot date rather than shoot with an inferior camera.
 
This is one of the reasons I planned my first RED feature for summer 08.
 
Brook Willard said:
That is, unless everybody over there really is a special-forces ninja who has mastered all trades... ;) :)
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If I tell you, I'd have to kill you :red_bandana: :bye2:
 
It always amazes me how many people take an emotional roller coaster ride on user boards for new product releases. I label this as intangible constructs, since nothing exists that we can get our hands on, but exist solely in the mind till the product is released.

Humans have such a propensity and capacity to immerse themselves into this realm of intangible constructs. The new toys will keep coming. There will always be nicer ones on the horizon. How much do we miss that which is in front of as we cast our gaze on this horizon? More simply put; we can spend time in this non-existent realm or we can spend our time working with the tools at hand. I prefer the later. When the Red lands in my lap is when it will be real.

I am sure I will take some heat for this.
 
*sizzle* ...nah don't think so. ;)

Tried online auctions lately? As soon as people bid they think they already own the stuff! ...I think this forum gets quite excited over this interesting new invention, and hey why not? But it's been a little slow and people are getting itchy since we had so many cool images from NAB. I feel like William Burroughs on a bad day! Gimme RED! :)

I think people actively engage in the rollercoaster because it's enjoyable. Rollercoasters are more fun when you get on and take the ride than when you're just standing in line watching.
 
Neurodancer said:
It always amazes me how many people take an emotional roller coaster ride on user boards for new product releases. I label this as intangible constructs, since nothing exists that we can get our hands on, but exist solely in the mind till the product is released.
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I think the reason that some of us feel it's more tangible than others is that we got to touch it, look through the lens, see the live output, and get a firsthand demonstration of the post process workflow at NAB. The sensor is real, we've seen what it can do, and we know exactly what the camera is capable of in the hands of a worthy cinematographer. This is eons more information and actual, hands-on experience than just about any other camera company has given during a brand new product launch. It's an unconventional move for an unconventional company and there is no question that the word is spreading. The downside of having everyone's attention is that you are bound to ruffle some feathers when you put out a preliminary schedule and then have to take it off the website and say "come back in five weeks."

Many of us have been waiting for the day that a digital cinema camera would hit the market with the resolution we crave but a price we can realistically afford. I made a post on DVXUser over a year ago stating that Panasonic has their own solid state technology (P2), the technological know-how and ability to offer variable frame rate recording, and the chipsets and manufacturing processes necessary to yield high-quality, high-resolution (1080p, at least) sensors. So where is their native 1080 P2 camera that can shoot variable framerates? They keep dicking around with models that leave out some or most of the pieces causing the user to be forced to make some sort of compromise with their gear. (For instance, the Varicam is tape-based and tops out at 720p, the HPX500 uses a standard-def PAL CCD and pixelshifts to get their 1080 resolution, and even their brand-new, "top of the line" AJ-HPX3000G with a $48,000 pricetag won't do variable framerates. Come on, that's a joke!)

With RED, they have shown that they're taking the effort extremely seriously and doing everything in their power to create the most feature-rich, comprehensive camera they can that not only works hard through firmware upgradability and a massive sensor size to "make obsolesence obsolete," but at a price that isn't greedy and doesn't break the bank. I realize companies the size of Panasonic have way more overhead than RED, but Jim's in this venture to make money - he's not giving these things away. If he can figure out a way to give us a 4K camera for $17,500 AND turn a profit and the "other guys" are still dangling pixelshifted carrots in our face and asking $48 grand a pop for them, it sounds like some reorganization is in order.

Meanwhile, the entire RED team has been very forward with its user base and been extremely open about the process so far. They've given us dozens of renders of camera designs along the way, asked us what works and what doesn't, and have managed to meet all of their deadlines (most ahead of schedule!) along the way. Many professionals on other forums and mailing lists didn't even think they'd GET here, letalone in the time frame they anticipated. So for all of these achievements, for never once coming up short, and for delivering to NAB working cameras of the vision they had just a fleeting year earlier, they've shown us that they CAN do what they say they're going to do and there's no reason we shouldn't trust them when they give us a release date. Of course, as always, "everything is subject to change - count on it."

The point of this long-winded post is that while you're right - a lot of people have invested themselves into RED ("emotionally" if you want to call it that; I'd say "passionately" is a better word choice), they've never given us a reason to doubt it or think otherwise. They've defied all odds up until this point, so why not put some faith in their project? Some of us did that way back at last year's NAB; others have waited until they could see it in person. Perhaps you would rather hold off until the barcodes are on the boxes and you can choose the overnight shipping option on the website. But given all of the data they've shown us so far, given their unbelievable track record and willingness to listen, and given their fantastic display of working models at NAB, I don't think it's fair to state that RED is an "intangible" dream that exists "soley in the mind."

Perhaps you're thinking of the Kinetta?
 
Hi Neutordancer,

Hard to understand your post in the light of the fact that you’ve already started to purchase accessories. In circumstances where it might be nieve to get emotionally involved with an "intangible construct" it's altogether ridicules to buy tangible accessories for an "intangible construct".

Hi All,

I am 285 in the que. I purchased a used Cooke 18-100 T3 to go with it.
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You're winding us up
 
WHAT!! THE CAMERA HAS BEEN DELAYED? Oh well, I ordered mine sometime in late April and have no idea when I was supposed to get it anyway. I've learned to live with uncertainty. It's not so bad.
 
Here's an idea for the red team: Why not post the ETAs of cameras (or groups of camera serial numbers) somewhere on their website. Lets put that interweb to use. :whistling:

Cheers,
Pete
 
The status is YOU WAIT..otherwise get a refund and buy something else.. Nobody is holding you to this camera.. Red, I echo other users when I say take as lonnnnnnnnnnngggg as you need... In the meantime I will continue using the tools I have and renting what I don't have.. Peeps, this isn't the Roesetta Stone
 
Guys.....Guys

I can understand that you can no longer wait for the delivery of your RED camera.......

In that case I am offered -since I have the time and the will to wait for a finished camera that will dominate the system - to buy your reservation for the ammount you spend.

Anybody?


I only need one camera for a start.......
 
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