New to Nikon

[David Baumber]

Calling all 'Lensbians',

I have a dilemma! I am about to become the proud owner of a 2nd hand Red One with stage 3 upgrade path to Epic. Being a Canon fan for some time, I only have EF glass which I will use on the Epic. I'm not going to try and mount the Canon's on the RED and void my upgrade so....... I have a couple of options. I can buy PL cine glass (and I'm interested in the RPZ 17-50 to start me off) or invest in some Nikon glass.

I have no knowledge about the Nikon's and not even sure which naming convention (AF? AFS?) I should trawl Ebay for that will fit on the Nikon RED mount. Could someone enlighten me please. It might help me buy a few cheap Nikons until the Epic arrives.

Thank you for your consideration. :rolleyes5:

 

[Dan Kanes]

What is your shooting style?

Are you a zoom guy?

For low budget I'd go:

24mm f2 ai
35mm f2 ai
50mm f2 ai
85mm f2 ai

Or you could go zf if you have the desire for speed and newer coatings, round out the wide with a nikon 14-24 or tokina 11-16 or 16-28

35mm 1.4
50mm 1.4
85mm 1.4

Check out the Allstar mount. Worth every penny and Red Approved.

 

[Mike 'Fireman' Ross]

Dan asked an important question. Here's another; is there really no EF mount available that's RED-approved?

One thing to remember about Nikon glass; if it has 'G' in the name it has NO iris control except through the mount... your best bet is older cheaper AI glass. You'll have your EPIC by end of Summer (touch wood) so don't blow a lot of money on glass you won't use on EPIC.

A lot depends on your shooting style as was said. Me, I'd buy an old RED 18-50mm used - can find for as little as $2500 - and rent any more expensive PL glass I needed. I wouldn't bother with Nikon at all if I didn't have the glass already.

Mike

 

[David Baumber]

Thanks for the help. I really like the 17-50 RPZ.

Anyone wanting to sell there's at the moment? Is there a for sale list on reduser?

 

[Elsie N]

David,

What kind of shooting? Any F mount lens will fit on a RED Nikon mount. If you only need a dumb mount, just look for any F mount lens (except the G lens, as Mike pointed out). Personally I have a couple of old 50-300 zooms that I prefer over any of my other old Nikons I have. But for Epic I have already started my cache of G Nikons.

Oh, and if you don't already have the Nikon mount, just ask here on Reduser. I would even sell my remaining one if I had PL glass, but I have to keep it until trade-in time for Stage 3 so I can continue using Nikons.

 

[David Baumber]

I never use the zoom function in a shot but I shoot a lot for Getty Images as I'm an exclusive contributor. I shoot loose and fast and try and gather as many wides and close ups as possible so that a buyer has the choice. That makes a zoom valuable to me. My Canon L zooms are 24-70 2.8 and 70-200 2.8 and I really love them. I'm using the 5D with these lenses and the video quality is quite amazing (for a DSLR).

It's a hard choice to make. I know I'll be using the Canon L glass on the Epic a lot. Having said that, the 17-50 RPZ would be useful for my Steadicam work. The question is, will I want to swap mounts on the Epic in the middle of a busy shoot where time is money?

Oh blimey!

Can I use the Allstar mount without harming the Epic upgrade? (Errm just took a look at the Allstar site and it doesn't mention Canon compatability)

 

[Daniel Doherty]

David,
I just purchased the Nikon Pro Lock from Optitek and it works really well on RED MX. Very sturdy. However, I wouldn't want to change mounts in the middle of a shoot. I can do it in 10 minutes but those minutes are too valuable. Can't speak for the Allstar mount though. I also think you might have a hard time finding a 17-50 RPZ for $2,500 as Mike suggested. He may have been referring to the 18-50mm RPZ which I have seen for that price.

 

[Mike 'Fireman' Ross]

David,
I just purchased the Nikon Pro Lock from Optitek and it works really well on RED MX. Very sturdy. However, I wouldn't want to change mounts in the middle of a shoot. I can do it in 10 minutes but those minutes are too valuable. Can't speak for the Allstar mount though. I also think you might have a hard time finding a 17-50 RPZ for $2,500 as Mike suggested. He may have been referring to the 18-50mm RPZ which I have seen for that price.

You're right of course; brain fart there. The original 18-50mm, which you WILL find for $2500, had a 'mixed' reputation AFAIK; optically strong but mechanically some were allegedly not up to scratch. I'll edit my original post to not perpetuate the error!

Mike

 

[Roberto Lequeux]

Buy good used Nikons and they will sell for what you payed. A good set of used Duclos or RPlenses would be a great investment. Beware when choosing to buy manual Nikons, as they will focus in the opposite direction and seasoned 1st ACs will hate your guts, at least for the first few days but even after that. A used set of modified ZFs should sell for the same amount you will pay to buy them, so long as you treat them with professional care of course.

Definitely check out the market place at DVXuser.

For ZFs, keep in mind you might not be getting superspeeds, but you are getting the best mechanics available in still lenses. And long focus throws for still lenses. I would love to have a small set of them. It is nice knowing they will cover up to Vistavision, last forever, and re-sell very well. Just gotta find good prices or get a lot of use out of them and they are a safe bet. Make sure the samples are sharp enough for you, but with 4.5k + you would be beyond covered for 2k or smaller deliverable, so that's that. Sharper lenses will look sharper at 2k, but these guys are no slouches!

21mm f/2.8
28mm f/2.0 (must buy!)
35mm f/1.4 or f/2.0 (not sure which is best)
50mm f/2.0 (the f/1.4 has significant CA)
85mm f/1.4​

Which used I am guessing should be a little over 7k, but varying wildly depending on the seller.

And there is always Bierger mount, which as far as I remember doesn't void your warranty (check for yourself). Tons of people are using it and love it. It does a whole lot more than allow you to use the new Nikon G-primes with heir focus action "fixed". Going wireless means heaps of value in of itself. It also lets you dial in how much focus throw you want for each lens by being able to program that yourself. How to get one, not sure, but lots of users can answer that for you. I would at least check it out if you have a nice set of Canons. It might be too late to get a Bierger on a Red One if you are going to upgrade to an Epic, unless you have tons of work lined up before that, of course.

Good luck!
0.02

 

[David Baumber]

Thanks Roberto and please excuse my ignorance: Are the ZF's with Nikon mount?

 

[Steve Wake]

Trying hard not to write a book here but here goes:

Warnings:
Ditto Roberto's warning about the reverse focus.
Go either Ai (Manual), AiS (later manual with better coatings), or AFS (silent built-in focusing motor). Other versions of AF use a screw drive that requires a motor in the camera body and usually have worse manual focus feel than the AI or AIS lenses.
Some AFS are G (nicknamed "gelded" since the aperture ring is gone). Proceed with caution.
Some older AFS are known for developing squeaky focus motors, though they are great lenses : the 17-35 2.8 comes to mind, and to a lesser extent the 28-70 2.8
I'm guessing you are transitioning from stills, so you are aware that the R1 and Epic have APS - sized sensors (more-or-less) with the attendant crop factor.

Quick Recommendations:
Agree with the Ai list above if you want to go MF, but would add 28 f/2, and substitute 50 1.8 for the 50 f/2.
If you want to go more modern AFS, 14-24 is unbeatable by ANYONE on the wide end, and the 70-200 is great - save some $ by getting the VR1 model since it is excellent except FF in the corners. Mid-range zooms - a good 17-35, 28-70 at the cheaper end, 24-70 a little more.

For more advice look up these websites: Thom Hogan, Naturfotograf, Photozone.

For specs and help deciphering Nikon alphabet soup look here: http://www.photosynthesis.co.nz/nikon/specs.html

For a safe source of used glass that is consistently conservatively rated go to KEH

 

[Roberto Lequeux]

They sell ZF's with both Canon and Nikon mounts. Nikons have manual iris rings, Canons focus "the right" way. So it isn't a perfect solution either. Modified Nikon ZF's do not get their focus reversed as far as I know, I think that is far more involved and expensive possibly requiring a complete re-housing. Zeiss already did themselves (Compact Primes at 3k each), which give you the full Zeiss cinema barrel treatment. If you are happy with ZF IQ those are their ultimate version.

But I think you are in a bit of a gray zone... You could try older modified manual Canons... which would have all the right "features". But they are hard to come by and since I haven't used them or heard enough people rave about them... I dunno 'bout that. Could be worth a little investigation! Ask RPlenses about those older Canons.

Oh, and if you add a Tokina 11-16mm to a 21mm, 28mm, 35mm, 50mm, 85mm set you would be in great shape. Not perfect, but since there really aren't 18mm solutions out there, as good as you could get.



But bottom line, I'd say the PL-mount 17-50mm T/2.9 RPZ is probably your best investment opportunity. You will likely want to keep that guy for ever. Sure, it looks fugly with that doggy-ear-infection cone it has, but you can shoot a whole movie with it, and make it look good.

Of course a good set of slightly old but well coated Nikon primes will cost less and be faster. But, the 17-50mm will give you the flexibility you get with the 24-70 on a 5D, only it is a better lens and it has cine mechanics. It is also small, and light at only 3.2lbs.

 

[David Baumber]

Roberto, I think you're right. The 17-50 RPZ will be handed down to my children when I die and hopefully I'll have shot a feature or two with it before then! Now all I have to do is swallow the European price (which includes import duty) and speak to RED at Pinewood. I'm not tight with money when it comes to my kit - I love investing in my career - I just don't like it when I make a bad choice. Either way, the 17-50 RPZ can't be a bad choice, I'm sure I'll adore it sitting on my new RED Happy days!

Thanks everyone for your help - much appreciated. This is an amazing place for experienced people who actually want to share their knowledge. Fabulous!

 

[Roberto Lequeux]

Keep in mind I am a Writer Director. I am not a DP, owner-operator or rental house, so please take all I say as my 0.02. But if I can help, I am more than glad! There are far more experienced people when it comes to technical aspects on this forum, but yea, that's what I would get.

 

[Ariel Weiss]

If you want great and cheap:
tokina 11-16
nikon 20mm f2.8 ais
nikon 28 f2.8 ais
nikon 35 f2 af
nikon 50 f1.8 afd
nikon 85 f 1.8 ais

If you want to invest more, go with 85 f1.4

the best today at nikon are probably:
tokina 11-16
nikon 14-24
nikon 24 f1.4 g
nikon 35 f1.4 g
nikon 50 f1.4g
nikon 85 f1.4g

for longer there are great 135 f2 either af or ais and 300 f2.8 also af (expensive) or ais
for "g" lenses you need mount with aperture control like the "prolock" etc.

look here for reviews: http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/nikkor.htm

 

[Mike 'Fireman' Ross]

Another quick +1 for the Nikon 14-24; it's a lovely lens, I shoot stills with it more than any other lens I reckon. I can't wait to throw it on my EPIC and make moving pictures...

Just a thought. You're going EPIC, and you already have a bunch of nice Canon glass as far as I can tell. I would be cautious about spending too much money on PL glass, such as the RPZ that's been discussed. I'm sure it's beautiful. I'm sure you may want to hand it down. But I've a hunch that you will fall in love with the utility of auto focus and auto iris with the Canon glass on your EPIC, and you'll not shoot as much with PL glass as you expect. Maybe wait before making that investment, and see if RED come up with an electronic RPZ that takes full advantage of the capabilities of EPIC.

I haven't held an EPIC for more than sixty seconds, yet, but I say this after reading the opinions of those who should know - Jim, for instance!

Mike

 

[Richard Foster]

My choice is faster AIS primes. As others have said here the 18 is a soft spot, there is only a 3.5 Nikon there. But I use the 17-35 f2.8 AFS Zoom for that and my AIS primes are 24 f2, 35 f1.4, 50 f1.4, 85 f1.4, 105 f1.8. This makes a great set of primes. For longer I use the 80-200 f2.8 AFS, and sometimes use my 28-70 f2.8 AFS. But basically I shoot with the AIS primes set and love them. For the RED MX these are great and I also use the OPTITEK PRO-LOCK MOUNT. Do not pass go if you're going to go with Nikon glass. It is the only way to go. Rock solid and quick for lens changes.

 

[Timothy Eaton]

Buy good used Nikons and they will sell for what you payed. A good set of used Duclos or RPlenses would be a great investment. Beware when choosing to buy manual Nikons, as they will focus in the opposite direction and seasoned 1st ACs will hate your guts, at least for the first few days but even after that.

True that Roberto, but I have a set of Duclos modified Nikon mount ZFs, and I use the Arri MFF-1 lightweight follow focus which comes with a reversing gear. Problem solved.

 

[Paul Hudson]

I have a set of Nikkor AI lenses I converted myself and just sold. I have just purchased a set of RP Nikons. I have used these lenses that Peter converts before and they are fantastic.

 

[Roberto Lequeux]

My choice is faster AIS primes. As others have said here the 18 is a soft spot, there is only a 3.5 Nikon there. But I use the 17-35 f2.8 AFS Zoom for that and my AIS primes are 24 f2, 35 f1.4, 50 f1.4, 85 f1.4, 105 f1.8. This makes a great set of primes. For longer I use the 80-200 f2.8 AFS, and sometimes use my 28-70 f2.8 AFS. But basically I shoot with the AIS primes set and love them. For the RED MX these are great and I also use the OPTITEK PRO-LOCK MOUNT. Do not pass go if you're going to go with Nikon glass. It is the only way to go. Rock solid and quick for lens changes.

I am going to bet this is your best Nikon option. Based on what I know about Nikons and my personal focal preference. Aside from G's with RedmotePro once that is ready, of course.

True that Roberto, but I have a set of Duclos modified Nikon mount ZFs, and I use the Arri MFF-1 lightweight follow focus which comes with a reversing gear. Problem solved.

True that too. That's what I've told some ACs I've talked to, and though some would rather not have to think about it at all, several have said they are solid FF solutions. There are other more affordable companies that also offer reversal gear boxes, I think RedRock is one. Of course you definitely don't want to mess with that part of the system or the mechanics of any lens go to waste by not having a communicative feel on the focus. I think a friend bought an MFF-1, though it may have been an older two-sided system from Arri with a reversal option. It was priced accordingly, but he loved it on Nikons.

The 14-24mm is a gem, but it is also a lot of money, and needs additional lenses for a good focal range. The Tokina is an other gem, but again the 17-50mm is right up against it. And 17mm on 4.5k and 5k sensor areas is WIDE and WIDER. Not talking ultra-wide like 11mm might be, but not a bad place to be for interiors. It is far better to get the 17-50mm T2.9 and compliment it with the $650 11-16mm f2.8 Tokina (which covers 5k wide full open!). I even got one of those! And then rent the telephoto RPPs!
Which is a beaut' of a scenario really, since you get rent two of the smaller and lighter RPPs to complete the range. The 85mm and the 100mm T1.9 Red Pro Primes are very comfortable lenses to work with. And they would match the RPZ beautifully! Feel free to have fun renting the rest as necessary, whether faster wides or long telephoto. And you get to have the most versatile set at home. An 11-16mm f2.8 and a 17-50mm T2.9 which with these cameras mean you can pretty much do anything.