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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

New Sony F3 Footage

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Rudi, I owe you an apology, I didn't realise I was on page three of the thread! Henry Olanga appears at the top of page three on my browser, so I mistakenly thought you were aiming your rant at him - he's not really someone you can accuse of sitting on the couch!!

Anyway, apologies again:)
 
Liam,

Accepted. I wasn't directing my rant to anyone in particular, and certainly not Henry, whom, if I'm not mistaken, has spent countless hours shooting with DOf adapters and laptops tethered to camcorders. I was just venting on an ever increasing feeling of malaise and discomfort I'm getting from many people who keep pointing out the shortcomings of all types of cameras and formats, some of them without ever actually having used said cameras, and keep delaying the debut of their never before seen talents (literally) until RED can price and deliver one of their cameras to their liking. I do not deny the deficiencies of all those systems, and therefore implicitly agree that RED has leaped light years ahead of all those compromises, but I prefer to focus on the undeniable fact that, if you really make it your purpose, you can achieve great results with an increasingly large variety of cameras besides RED. In fact, this has been the case for many years now.
 
I think its self evident that people who are making a living shooting, will shoot with existing camera technology that's available now, rental or owner.

Those who don't have demands to shoot a project, can sit back and armchair DP and fantasize about owning the perfect camera.
 
I'm quite happy at the moment. No need to buy another camera. I have taken time out of shooting. Just writing and doing some effects work. So I can sit and relax and write...Scarlet will come when she's ready. I got a good six months before I need to start thinking about cameras.

Its a perfect position to be in.
 
Tim Hole said:
I'm quite happy at the moment. No need to buy another camera. I have taken time out of shooting. Just writing and doing some effects work. So I can sit and relax and write...Scarlet will come when she's ready. I got a good six months before I need to start thinking about cameras.

Its a perfect position to be in.
Click to expand...

Actually, me too. I own a few HD cameras from which I can extract the absolute best of the format through endless experimentation and actual work, and whenever I need something better, I rent a RED, which I've done about 8 times since I sold my RED. So I can survive like this until Scarlet and/or Epic are out and I get to decide which of the two to buy. RED was too cumbersome for 90% of my work but either Epic or Scarlet will suit me just fine, so in waiting for them, I will bypass whatever offers come from Sony et al, although I admit the game is getting more and more interesting.
 
The smaller deck sounds nice. Thanks you for the info Steven, I hadn't heard about it.

I can't see people wanting to shoot a movie on an F3 over a Red One though, even if the deck rented for $1. And I can't see anyone in their right mind wanting to rent an F3 over an EPIC, that just simply doesn't compute.

A great little camera. It would have made a big splash, 2-3 years ago. Again, not a rental house here, but to me it feels 90% DOA, and will be fully kaput and then some by Epic release.
 
Actually I can see lots of reasons why someone might prefer shooting on an F3 rather than a Red One.
Easier, faster workflow. Camera boots in 4 sec. You don't need to "build" the camera to be operational. Easier onboard audio. Internal ND filters. Integrated battery. Higher quality SDI out.

Just as there reasons why someone might prefer shooting on a Red One rather than an F3.
Higher res. Higher framerates. RAW.

Epic ought to be a different story, but it is also much more expensive.
 
That was why I left out 10% :D

But you are right Steven, for many it is likely more than just a tiny little 10%. Personally I either go all out or not care at all, so if I am going to just shoot quick and dirty for BTS or what have you I would likely shoot on a bare 7D and be happy. But I can see situations where I might want a step in between, just not likely in my case.
 
F3 footage the Real Story

F3 footage the Real Story

I was the DOP with Jason Wingrove and we shot the "Compulsion" short at a sea pool here in Sydney OZ. We only recorded to the internal SxS cards. Lenses were a set of older Arri Superspeeds with a single 40mm ultraprime and a 135mm zeiss standard. Filtration was a mixture of the internal ND and some external ND filters. Lens choice was deliberate as we thought the superspeeds were a more appropriate choice for a camera of this value.It was shot Doco style with no lights with only a couple of flexfills used on the girl talking to camera.

Sony has a set of three f2 primes coming with EX mount at 35,50 and 85mm focal lengths and later on a f2.8 zoom. The camera should be able to control the inbuilt lens motors. If these can be built cheaply and well to take advantage of the electronics to remove colour aberrations then Sony is on a winner.The ability to use lightweight, easy to use, cheap but high performance glass will give the system a real leg up.

I am a RED One owner and I don't believe the F3 will stackup against the Red One and certainly not the Epic but this camera is not designed as a Digital Cinema camera. This camera is a video camera with a 35mm sensor. Anyone who has used an EX1 or EX3 can use this machine. The XDCam codec while thin is better than it should be and most importantly seamlessly fits into a TV/video post path where colour grading is not usually aggressive. This camera is super lightweight, easy to use and to post. This is what it does best. Weddings, corporates, low end TVCs and television programmes will love it.

Would I shoot a well budgeted TVC or a feature film probably not but the camera creates a new niche in videography for large sensor photography.
 
They are going to sell a lot of F3's. Under $13k street price is not too bad, the 3D optional deal whatever that is..... At some point I think they will open up the 50mbit EX codec on it as well. They really should try to get prores on there if only they could think that way, although its good for AJA that they don't.
 
Roberto Lequeux said:
The smaller deck sounds nice. Thanks you for the info Steven, I hadn't heard about it.

I can't see people wanting to shoot a movie on an F3 over a Red One though, even if the deck rented for $1. And I can't see anyone in their right mind wanting to rent an F3 over an EPIC, that just simply doesn't compute.

A great little camera. It would have made a big splash, 2-3 years ago. Again, not a rental house here, but to me it feels 90% DOA, and will be fully kaput and then some by Epic release.
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It does compute if you simply don't like the red work flow.. Is that really hard to believe?..you don't have to agree but it's true, many in hollywood like "Good Enough" Prores 4:2:2 / xdcam 4:20.
 
@Tom.

That sounds very rightish.

@ Carl
Hm. I can interpret your point, and I think it would be a good idea with a unfiddleable prores module on the Epic to rise the baseline of RED post.
 
Gunleik Groven said:
@Tom.

That sounds very rightish.

@ Carl
Hm. I can interpret your point, and I think it would be a good idea with a unfiddleable prores module on the Epic to rise the baseline of RED post.
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today i would like a dnxhd module, which i guess would cost 1500 dollars more due to avid licencing their codec.
i dont really understand why avid doesnt understand that their codec is not the main reason to edit on avid.
apple instead gives prores to third parties for free, so there is a prores module on alexa.

rumour mode on: arri wanted to have 1st cineform and or dnxhd, but due to licencing fees of both companies, they moved to prores.

cineform i understand, they are a codec company, but avid?
the wider their codec is used, the more avid MCs they will sell.

-side note: avid should develop a free mxf viewer for mac
 
comin to red,
instead a module it would be benefitial if the debayering was done by GPU, so your cpu doesnt need to be hulk hogan.
a rocket is geourgous today, but scarlet users simply wont be able to by a rocket, although the bt red rockets paid for itself in one day......when you see rt transcodes and full debayer playback, wow thats super.

but scarler users wont be able to buy it.

guess mode on:
there will be a gpu debayering mode through the SDK, but it will
be limited(not artificial though), to get hdrx and 5k moving you possibly wil need a rocket, no matter what,
but redcode 28,4k footage could be handled by the gpu

comin to the f3:
we shot a fake television reportage scene with an EX3.
would have been good to use the F3 for, for simple reasons lile using the same lens set like your main camera.
my 2 pesosz
 
The funny thing about all these Cameras coming two big big humongous limitations, ability to POINT AND SHOOT, and RESOLUTION. We can argue on here for hours about all these new cameras, formats, form factors etc. But every cinematographer I have worked with that uses the Red loves it for its ability to work like a film camera, ie. measure the light, compose and shoot. You don't have to worry about a host of image issues plaguing all those other psuedo-video cameras or second guess yourself if you captured enough resolution.
 
Paul Leeming said:
Wise words indeed

When you hold a 5K, 120fps, 18+ stop digital cinema camera in your hand like a DSLR and see it operational.... trust me, you will never want any other camera ever again (except maybe the next Red!). It's truly mindblowing what Jim and team have achieved in such a short space of time. To paraphrase Ted today: "It's not a year late, it's five years early!"

Here's a size comparison for you to think about:

Epic-vs-5D_IMG_0664a.jpg


Game changer.

All that power in something the size of a Canon 5D MkII and only a bit heavier. Put a Marshall monitor on the 5D and they'd look like cousins. But the truth is they couldn't be more different. One shoots 5K at 120fps with 18 stops of latitude. The other.... not so much!! :D



Paul :)
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AWwww!! Paul you have just made my friday night perfect and wonderful. Thanks for that post and picture.
Excuse my language but after seeing the above picture all I can say is F**K TH af100 and f3, they are trying to take us backwards.
 
shashbugu said:
AWwww!! Paul you have just made my friday night perfect and wonderful. Thanks for that post and picture.
Excuse my language but after seeing the above picture all I can say is F**K TH af100 and f3, they are trying to take us backwards.
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Apologies taken ;-) aside, that's why we are all here, isn't it?

BTW, this is a real names policy forum, so I suggest you go here:

http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=32432
 
Paul Leeming said:
Here's a size comparison for you to think about:

Epic-vs-5D_IMG_0664a.jpg


Game changer.

All that power in something the size of a Canon 5D MkII and only a bit heavier. Put a Marshall monitor on the 5D and they'd look like cousins. But the truth is they couldn't be more different. One shoots 5K at 120fps with 18 stops of latitude. The other.... not so much!! :D

Epic and Scarlet are going to decimate the competition, if you can even call the other camera companies that.... it won't be a battle, it'll be a massacre!

Cheers from Tokyo,

Paul :)
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Both sides of the same coin have been and will still be game changer(s ;-) IMHO even Scarlet a way further (BTW Paul, cheers to Tokyo from Rome, E. :-)
 
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