Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

New Scarlet-X Owner Reality Check

I'm probably the odd duck here since I'm coming from a professional 3D and Animation background but I think people over-estimate what they need to shoot on RED.

I would say about 1/2 of the spots that pass through my desk are shot on RED about 1/3 are shot on film with the rest shot on 5D/F100/F3 etc. I get RED footage and I just drop it in to Nuke, add a mild furnace denoise, render out 16bit EXRs and start working. Alternately I load up Premiere and can scrub *in real time* without a red rocket and with color correction at 720p.

On the other hand when I get something like H264 I can't work with that. It gums up Premiere. Nuke hates it. So I'm going to render it off to DPX anyway. Render times aren't terrible. For a 30s spot you're only looking at about 1.5 hours of rendering.

Of the two, R3D actually plays back smoother on my computer and more reliably than most XDCAM codecs which are supported... just about nowhere.

Final render times aren't that bad. Sure it'll be a LONG time but again maybe I'm Jaded by years of frames taking up to 8-12 hours each but a <1 second render time is perfectly acceptable. And compared to how long it takes something like 16mm film to be processed and transferred it's a breeze!

As to needing a full crew to pull focus... Tell that to everyone who's been shooting on the 5D @ F2 for the last few years.
 
I agree with Gavin. I planned and researched and planned before I went with Red. Can't say I have had too many problems. High school screen arts program. Different than most indie situations, we always have lots of crew so focus puller, boom op, slate, camera op you name it we got it but the first year I s#%t you not we cut our stuff on e-macs. This was our first short:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovvqxAVtQsM

I am renowned at being a cheap b%$#@ so I found a way to make things work with very little of the extra stuff. Just the essentials.

Admittedly, had the 5d/T2i been out when the red one was released I can't say for sure what we would have done but I can say now that our students know more about photography, teamwork and planning than if we had gone with a 5d. In fact several of our students now own T2i's and D90's and apply the same principles we teach at school to their films. If you invest wisely things tend to work out. Overall though this thread is a good warning for those who dream but don't plan.

In addition, after shooting for three years our camera is still mint. Solid metal. In the past the DVX100's, XL1/2's that we used just didn't last that long. Our upgrade to Epic will be the last for us for what I think will be fifteen years or so. Plus now we can use our yearbook lenses for shooting as well. It really is incredible the kind of efficiency you can build into your camera package now that it is so customizable!
 
I want to thank everyone here for their insight and experiences, both good and bad.
And thanks, Gavin, for your technical stuff here. Good to know what codecs are a pain to post.

My position is this. If you want to make films, get film gear. If you want to shoot videos, get video gear.
Film gear, be it from RED, ARRI, or AATON, makes better films than video gear, usually. Video gear is better for ENG, corporate stuff, and events.
(Yes, the original 2/3 Scarlet concept would have better for those environments, but it woud still be closer to film gear than video gear in a lot of ways, both good and bad.)

Just don't jump out and dump a year's income on ANY toolbox you will never open and use. Don't buy expensive toys (if that's what they are for you) on credit. Please. A lot of us have done it and paid dearly for it. How many of us here have S-16 rigs in long-term storage?

If you're really only going to shoot a couple of shorts and maybe one feature, RENT a better package than you could buy and spend your other money on talent and crew, or maybe post and sound.
 
Call me nuts, but I don't really feel bad for the guy in the quoted text.

He ordered a camera for 30+K, with money that he didn't have...and had no prospects of making money...

It's his own damn fault. I need a new car, I'll buy within my budget, not order a BMW M6 because it will let me arrive at my destination in style.
 
Benoît-Joan Clariana-Roig said:
Scarlet-X is a cam for cinema sets with a dedicated team & a solid budget. You can't expect using a Scarlet-X somewhere else.
Click to expand...

Tell me that next time I'm shooting on top of an Icelandic glacier, ice all around me, fire right in front of me, and a wind cold enough to freeze the balls off a brass monkey... alone, because there's no other bugger daft enough to follow me up there :-)

Mike
 
Mike 'Fireman' Ross said:
Tell me that next time I'm shooting on top of an Icelandic glacier, ice all around me, fire right in front of me, and a wind cold enough to freeze the balls off a brass monkey... alone, because there's no other bugger daft enough to follow me up there :-)

Mike
Click to expand...

I'd go! That sounds awesome! :D
 
Benoît-Joan Clariana-Roig said:
Scarlet-X is a cam for cinema sets with a dedicated team & a solid budget. You can't expect using a Scarlet-X somewhere else.
Click to expand...

Yes and no...

I have used the Epic single-handedly a bit, and the R1 a lot
If you know what you do, and what to expect and how to handle the limitations, that is just fine.

I also work a bit on large sets with the cams looking like a Spagetthi/mekano nigtmare.

Works fine, too...

Thing is to scale what you do to what you have.
I'd much more like to be left alone with an Epic, a couple of SSD's and a single prime, than say an ex3.

But it all depends on your knowledgelevel and what you are confident.

I'lll say this again:
Scale the shoot to what is practically achievable, and you're in for a much better result...
 
Benoît-Joan Clariana-Roig said:
An EPIC-X or Scarlet-X don't look "practically achievable" for the shoots I'm planning.
Click to expand...

The Scarlet can be used in most situations as long as you have time in post production. I used a 5D, 7D and 1D Mark IV for Motorsports coverage (one man band) with telephoto lenses. Do you want a more challenging scenario than that? The Scarlet with its superior LCD is Peanuts compared to shooting with a 5D with its onboard LCD . Want to see the results? Two examples:

http://vimeo.com/17118810

http://vimeo.com/17117095

And one going now through airwaves internationally

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OMz7VH6YL4

This was captured with Full frame and APS-C and H cameras. Cars moving at above 200 km/h with tele lenses. Its doable with practice.
 
Interesting
A lot of people think you need a large crew, well "Not", yes I have worked nice projects with full crews, lighting, focus pullers, the whole lot. But I bought my Red 1 as an ENG camera and Doc camera, run N gun, which is my bread and butter shooting. Hauling it though Afghanistan with no one to support me, yes it was heavy, but never a major pain, focus not an issue, I started out as a still shooter with medium and large format cameras, try focusing on an 8x10 Inch piece of ground glass doing fashion, then go to 35mm lenses, to me seems quite normal getting my focus.

The camera does not meet everyones needs, no camera does, I got it for the awesome images it produces, I used to claim I would never leave film, well I have for the most part, but I am still crazy and haul my view camera across the Veld with 10 plates and a heavy tripod to get the shots I want. It is about your passion for your art, your craft, any tool can do the job, I choose Red early on because it was a tool I believed in, I got my Epic because it is lighter then the R1, so my back is happy, and higher Rez, and I am stoked to be in the bush with both my 8x10 view camera and my Epic capturing the world in front of me.

Everyone has choices to make, you make your own future, only you, not your gear, it may help, but the vision must be yours. So have fun, if the Scarlet X makes sense, run with it, or an Epic, or a BT R1, which is still one of the best cameras I have ever used.

Ron
 
Mike 'Fireman' Ross said:
Tell me that next time I'm shooting on top of an Icelandic glacier, ice all around me, fire right in front of me, and a wind cold enough to freeze the balls off a brass monkey... alone, because there's no other bugger daft enough to follow me up there :-)

Mike
Click to expand...

I'll be doing the same thing Mike! Not necessarily in Iceland, but in the wilds of this world, away from everything but the elements! And then at other times in the middle of a crowded film set. Different things, sometimes within days of each other!
 
BrandonChristensen said:
Call me nuts, but I don't really feel bad for the guy in the quoted text.

He ordered a camera for 30+K, with money that he didn't have...and had no prospects of making money...

It's his own damn fault. I need a new car, I'll buy within my budget, not order a BMW M6 because it will let me arrive at my destination in style.
Click to expand...

Well said.
 
lol

but I can make more money if I get there sooner, not just in style
 
For me the primary difference will be needing a lot more storage, which is cheap these days, and planning for longer rendering time as needed. Shooting 2k raw for HD and SD finish should not be more demanding than dealing with AVCHD from other $10k range cameras.
I just won't be satisfied with shooting long GOP encoded video ever again. Redcode RAW is so much more powerful. Plus 5k stills is da bomb!

I figure I can get the $14k starter package initially and use my C-mount 16mm lenses for 2k and Minolta MD Rokkors for 35mm with low cost EOS adapters. Add media, batteries, and accessories as needed. All of my existing support gear will work OK for now.

Expensive for what is essentially a hobby camera, but nothing else is of much interest. This will be a single high quality camera that can serve all my needs very well for a very long time with room to grow.
 
Pardon my ignorance, but if you prefer to shoot 3k and under on the new X, why would you need more storage?

David Rasberry said:
For me the primary difference will be needing a lot more storage, which is cheap these days, and planning for longer rendering time as needed. Shooting 2k raw for HD and SD finish should not be more demanding than dealing with AVCHD from other $10k range cameras.
I just won't be satisfied with shooting long GOP encoded video ever again. Redcode RAW is so much more powerful. Plus 5k stills is da bomb!

I figure I can get the $14k starter package initially and use my C-mount 16mm lenses for 2k and Minolta MD Rokkors for 35mm with low cost EOS adapters.
Click to expand...
 
It's also good to keep the camera you are comfortable with for run and gun. If I feel the work will be jeopardized by focus/slow workflow, I'll convince my client to go with XDCam...
 
Sergio Perez said:
The Scarlet can be used in most situations as long as you have time in post production. I used a 5D, 7D and 1D Mark IV for Motorsports coverage (one man band) with telephoto lenses. Do you want a more challenging scenario than that? The Scarlet with its superior LCD is Peanuts compared to shooting with a 5D with its onboard LCD . Want to see the results? Two examples:

http://vimeo.com/17118810

http://vimeo.com/17117095

And one going now through airwaves internationally

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OMz7VH6YL4

This was captured with Full frame and APS-C and H cameras. Cars moving at above 200 km/h with tele lenses. Its doable with practice.
Click to expand...

Great videos Sergio, well done!
 
Excellent post!

I'm coming into the RED realm after working with HDSLRs for a while. I'm not doing this full time yet, so I'm taking a leap of faith here with my Scarlet-X order. This is the first camera I have ordered without having touched it or seen its footage! Crazy??

The main reason I'm doing this is
1) I want my footage to be the best it can be
2) because Canon or Nikon or will NEVER allow you to send in your old 5D or D3s to exchange the sensor for a newer one; they will make you buy a new camera instead, every time. The most they're willing to do is to provide a firmware upgrade, but rarely do these upgrade any of the set specs; they just fix the bugs mostly.

So, here I am RED. I hope I get hooked!
 
Originally Posted by BrandonChristensen
Call me nuts, but I don't really feel bad for the guy in the quoted text.

He ordered a camera for 30+K, with money that he didn't have...and had no prospects of making money...

It's his own damn fault. I need a new car, I'll buy within my budget, not order a BMW M6 because it will let me arrive at my destination in style.
Mark Phelan said:
Well said.
Click to expand...

No kidding. I like the car analogy. I specifically did not buy a used Audi a few years ago, because I knew the repairs and parts would crush me if something went wrong. I could shorten his post for him. Here it is: I am a poor planner and thought a camera would make me successful. I bought outside of my means, could not afford to operate that particular camera, and now feel really bad for myself. If I had a chance to do it over I would buy a cheaper camera and try not to make the same mistakes I just made.

Hopefully he gets his do over and can get out of debt, get a new camera and enjoy the fun of making movies again. There is a big lesson for this gentleman to learn here. This is where he can sit and sulk, or go get his affordable camera and re take control of his world. Good luck man. Let the negativity subside and put yourself back on the path towards moving past this experience.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top