new REDCINE-X feedback

[I Bloom]

When would I use Flut Control instead of exposure?

IBloom

 

[Jannard]

When would I use Flut Control instead of exposure?

IBloom

Exposure will move the white point... FLUT Control will not. If you are not clipped in RAW, you will never clip in FLUT.

Jim

 

[Ian Laurie]

Ok maybe I am missing something. Why would I bother with FLUT rather than just increase the ISO? they seem to be counter acting each other to me. What am I fundamentally misunderstanding here?

 

[Ruairi Robinson]

Ok maybe I am missing something. Why would I bother with FLUT rather than just increase the ISO? they seem to be counter acting each other to me. What am I fundamentally misunderstanding here?

Flut keeps the white point locked without burning out the image.

Its easier to see than to explain.

The main point is... why is redcine-X so bloody slow. Can we expect it to be optimized to achieve the same performance we already had with the old redcine or not?

This does not feel like progress to me, compared to the many other things that have taken giant leaps forward.

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

A sort of console like a Tangent's Wave is must have with REDCINE-X to see exactly

what is going on with grading in "real time" (RED Rocket™™™ helps a lot) from "native" R3D files.

Using the console's knobs and buttons is much easy way to get things done pretty fast doing color correction with R3D files.

Tanget Wave with Redcine-X both work perfect together.

Tanget Wave with Redcine-X both work perfect together.

Tanget Wave with Redcine-X both work perfect together.

 

[Nils Ruinet]

I'm really excited about where this is going !

Build 54 kept crashing on my Macbook Pro, but the new builds seem to be working fine so far.

I'm very happy to see the new lift / gamma / gain tool.
The new sharpening tool seems to be very efficent without adding too many ugly artifacts.
I really like the look presets box. It would be nice to have folders in there.
Curves are fine, and I finally found out how to assign my own presets to the P1-P7 buttons...
The new colorspace and gamma seem to be great, you get more saturated images than before.

I still haven't figured out what the FLUT adjustment is doing exactly, compared to exposure or ISO sliders ? Did I miss that explanation somewhere ?

And I second David Battistella's requests :

What I'd like to see:

XML SUPPORT
Debayer control over render settings (I think it defaults to FULL)
List view in clip selection window
Flat 18% grey option in for GUI
STOPLIGHTS as in camera
ADD HANDLES feature for TIMELINE RENDERS
BETTER USE OF PROCESSORS FOR NON RED Rocket™™™™™™™™ RENDERS

R3D TRIM and SEND TO ARCHIVE TOOL (ask me about this and I'll explain further)

QUESTIONS
When do we get the NEW CAMERA BETA release?

+ A dockable interface, similar to After Effects... All these floating boxes aren't very practical.

I have a feeling this could very well become a small and efficient grading app in the future... You already can do a lot with these few adjustments. Not every project needs secondaries.:smiley:

 

[David Battistella]

You do have handles for clips on the timeline... just click on the clip there.

Jim

I meant you could render the clips out of the timeline with handles. IE: The clip is 2 seconds in the timeline. Rendered with 10frame handles it would be 2:20. This is a great way to leave room for dissolves and compositing, etc.

Thanks for the reply. Looking forward to loading some basic looks in the camera when the next build is released.

David

 

[Martin Weiss]

Ruairi,
I Get realtime playback at 1/8th on a meagre MBP. Definatly not slow (and definately progress)

 

[David Battistella]

The main point is... why is redcine-X so bloody slow. Can we expect it to be optimized to achieve the same performance we already had with the old redcine or not?

This does not feel like progress to me, compared to the many other things that have taken giant leaps forward.

I'm not finding it slow at all...I think it is a MASSIVE step over REDCINE in many ways...and with a RR card it looks like a really great one-light solution.

David

 

[David Rasberry]

Ruairi,
I Get realtime playback at 1/8th on a meagre MBP. Definatly not slow (and definately progress)

I second that. The Windows version 54 of RC-X performs much better on my Vista 64 laptop than the old Redcine ever did.

 

[Nils Ruinet]

Exposure will move the white point... FLUT Control will not. If you are not clipped in RAW, you will never clip in FLUT.

Jim

Oh ok, got my answer
So why don't you just remove the exposure slider now ? Why would anyone still use it instead of FLUT ?

 

[Andrae Palmer]

The main point is... why is redcine-X so bloody slow. Can we expect it to be optimized to achieve the same performance we already had with the old redcine or not?

This does not feel like progress to me, compared to the many other things that have taken giant leaps forward.

I agree... of course anyone is going to get realtime playback at 1/8, 1/4 or 1/16th on a decent computer. I would like to get at least 12fps playback at 1/2res (just like with redcine) and a playback buffer that goes beyond just a few seconds. If the playback buffer could hold more than just a few seconds... I would be satisfied with that. Why just five seconds buffering at 1/2 res?

 

[Jannard]

Oh ok, got my answer
So why don't you just remove the exposure slider now ? Why would anyone still use it instead of FLUT ?

Someone may still have a use for it... but you will notice that we moved it to the bottom. We hope people will get the idea to move through the options from top to bottom.

Jim

 

[Jannard]

Flut keeps the white point locked without burning out the image.

Its easier to see than to explain.

The main point is... why is redcine-X so bloody slow. Can we expect it to be optimized to achieve the same performance we already had with the old redcine or not?

This does not feel like progress to me, compared to the many other things that have taken giant leaps forward.

Did you try 84 as suggested today? It is significantly faster. This application is in development. Tuning for speed comes in intervals between adding features. Also... you can always go back to tools you like better until we get further along. We are just trying to keep our customers in the development loop. I can hear the sound of frustration in your post. Hope we can find a way to satisfy your needs in a short period of time.

Jim

 

[Nils Ruinet]

Ruairi,
I Get realtime playback at 1/8th on a meagre MBP. Definatly not slow (and definately progress)

Same results here. 1/8 around realtime on a 2 year old MBP.

But I think the old RC was able to playback realtime at 1/4 resolution, so there is still a gap. Hopefully we'll get there, everybody hasn't bought a Redrocket yet...
In the meantime, being able to playback in RT at 1/8 is still not so bad.

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

Now finally REDCINE-X gave us (for free thanks RED) an application that can be considered

as a small (and free) version of SCRATCH or even a little CLIPSTER (with RED Rocket card included).

It could be good to have on option to pull EDL's from FCP to REDCINE-X and then conform edit from that.

I know could be done with a help (next updates) of Clipfinder or Crimson but direct import of EDL into REDCINE-X

would be mostly appreciate from all RED users.

Or I could be wrong here...???!!!

 

[Felix K.]

Thankyou for the Screenshots, Sanjin!
As a future owner (hopefully) it is hard to keep up with all the improvements.
How about some "Before/After" comparison?

 

[Andrae Palmer]

Same results here. 1/8 around realtime on a 2 year old MBP.

But I think the old RC was able to playback realtime at 1/4 resolution, so there is still a gap. Hopefully we'll get there, everybody hasn't bought a Redrocket yet...
In the meantime, being able to playback in RT at 1/8 is still not so bad.

Redcine is capable of realtime at a 1/4 res and 12fps plus at 1/2 res. I was regularly getting 16fps at 1/2 res. Redcine-x is 4fps or less at 1/2 res very slow without a redrocket. Not so bad for mobile work though since 1/4 or 1/8 res is ok for smaller displays. As stated my main concern is not RT playback... but why can't the playback buffer go beyond five seconds at 1/2 res?

 

[Harry Clark]

Jim,
I was asking about this on another thread, but I'll pose the question here too...
I'm looking for a little coaching in regards to the use of the FLUT adjustment. I was surprised at the strong change even a little move on the slider produced, and am just wondering what it's affecting other than the mids. (I understand that it will keep the highs from clipping) Also curious if it should be used as a first "broad stroke", before adjusting the curve etc. One of my favorite first steps is to lower the ISO a bit and work the curves from there. I hardly ever use the exposure and contrast sliders. Should I do my ISO first, the FLUT, then finesse with curves?
Any methodology that you'd care to share?
Cheers,
Harry

ps- in another thread, Mark Pederson asked for a split screen mode for grading. I think this would be great too! Not sure how possible it is to add in this stage of development...

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

Thankyou for the Screenshots, Sanjin!
As a future owner (hopefully) it is hard to keep up with all the improvements.
How about some "Before/After" comparison?

You're welcome Felix!


About "Before/After" comparison, we are all still waiting for that, probably they will have time to show us something in that way next week...