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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

New MacPro predictions? Hopes? Fears?

Michael Tiemann said:
You don't need a special guru for a Mac shop becuase Misha Engle will tell you FOR FREE how much Apple sucks.
Click to expand...

Hahahaha, when looking at the price and the closed system yes, I do love the design of the iMac's and we have one at the front desk.

The new iMac's(2019) have a decent price for the specs.
 
Michael Tiemann said:
You don't need a special guru for a Mac shop becuase Misha Engle will tell you FOR FREE how much Apple sucks.
Click to expand...
That's so funny! Btw my recent centos/redhat integration of rtx 2080 was really clean, previously getting my dual 1080's running perfectly in Linux was deadly. So ease of installation on the nvidia side is slowly coming to Linux ... but it's still a pain. My feeling is nvidia also needs a kick in the pants so everyone doesn't have to be a os genius in moving to gpu processing ( ie I despise that open nouveau nvidia driver on Linux).
 
M Most said:
You're missing my point. Red has embraced Cuda and has not to this point given any solid indication if and when they will support other graphics frameworks. So AMD doing things based on a brute force approach to current file formats and the current Red SDK is a bit counter to what Red themselves are doing, and will by definition not be as effective or scalable going forward. One can come up with whatever financial justification one wants, but that is the fact. Nvidia is supported directly by Red and other approaches are not, at least to this point in time.
Click to expand...

RED has asked both NVidia and AMD, AMD said no for their reasons(they also sell CPU's for example) and NVidia said yes for their reasons(they do a bit of ARM CPU's and that's it). What is brute force about the AMD solution, it's different and it already works in every NLE that supports .R3D(same is valid for intel) as long as .R3D exists. The problem was that previous CPU's where to slow/expensive to decode .R3D in realtime.
Lucky for us that we have competition again on both the CPU and GPU front, which is accelerating innovation and lowering prices.

NVidia announced the Quadro RTX line at august 14, 2018 for the following prices:
Quadro RTX 5000 $2,300
Quadro RTX 6000 $6,300
Quadro RTX 8000 $10,000

Only the RTX 5000 is still at that price level, the RTX 6000 now sells for $4,000 and the RTX 8000 for $5,500,
AMD had to sell the Radeon VII for only $ 700 because it had about the same speed in games as the RTX2080 which also sells for around $700,
This is what real competition does, multiple solutions for competitive pricing.

M Most said:
That is true, but the title of this thread is "New MacPro predictions? Hopes? Fears?.", not "Mac vs. PC." So, while self evident, use of other OS's is rather irrelevant to this discussion...
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Until the next MacPro comes, you can run MacOS 10.14 on a VM under linux(also with NVidia cards, etc..) when you need more speed than a current Mac can deliver.
 
So looks like HP bit the bullet on the stackable MacPro concepts.

https://www8.hp.com/us/en/elite-family/elite-slice-desktop.html

While I can file this under "kinda cool" it also goes in my "no thanks" bin.

This design perfectly illustrates how impractical a system like this would be. Especially if the modules are anything more than optical disc add ons and speaker modules.

First off, Apple would need to use a proprietary high speed interconnect. A single Thunderbolt 3 isn't gonna cut it if you're staking multiple modules like SSDs and graphics cards. On top of that, there would need to be a dedicated power pass through between modules. No way each module would need its own power brick.

On top of it all, how often would a person change modules? Once every two years maybe? Most users would configure once and never touch it again after so the entire idea is pointless.

Yes it's neat, and I can potentially see Apply so something like this for the Mac Mini, but for the MacPro, unless really over-engineered, this seems completely wrong for a workstation.

Something you preconfigure before buying and maybe tinker with some upgrades at home later is a better solution in every way.
 
1 + 1

1 + 1

A "brain" case, larger than tcMP/G4 cube but smaller than a full tower, designed to house components with reasonable TDP could be the centerpiece of a modular ecosystem. Previous efforts at "compact" were too aggressive, but that doesn't mean only big towers are viable.

My solution would be a mini-tower sized "brain" case for the mobo, PSU, cooling, ports, CPU, RAM, etc with just one PCIe slot. This would suit a portion of the market and support things like eGPU, RAIDs, etc via TB3. For the hard core crew, offer a second matching "daughter" case that's just a slotbox with it's own PSU and at least 24 dedicated lanes of PCIe4 via extender. With clever design, the two cases could allow for a very short distance between the mobo and an external PCIe bus to reduce latency issues.

For those of us that need max performance and would like to avoid a rat's nest of boxes and cables, we can just treat the brain/daughter combo like a cheese grater tower. Pack it full of GPUs, SSDs, specialty PCIe boards, etc. Order the whole thing BTO from Apple if you want full AppleCare coverage and are willing to pay a premium to protect your investment (or satisfy company purchasing rules).

For those folks who need more than a maxed-mini and/or aren't interested in an AIO like the iMac you could still sell them a one case solution. If they ever need more than the thermal envelope can handle, there's TB3 externals or add the daughter case later. This would keep a population of artists, creatives, hobbyists, institutional buyers, etc in the Mac.OSX world at a price point ($3-8K) and TDP requirement (1,100w PSU and air cooling) that would work in a wide variety of situations.

Cheers - #19
 
We are now all waiting for June 3rd. If Tim Cook releases a new Mac Pro that is not "user upgradable" - can we organize a "posse" (that is the correct spelling) - to kidnap him, and force him to release a
computer that professionals want ? I have the pitch forks and the torches ! Who is in ? When SWAT asks for our demands, we can say "we won't release him until we get a motherboard with 6 PCIe slots, a 2000 W power supply, liquid cooling, and Nvidia compatibility". We can compromise on the Nvidia compatilbity (now that AMD eGPU is supported by Adobe).

Viva La Revolution ! (will I be arrested this evening ?).
Bob Zelin
 
I already have doubts that the new Mac Pro will be embraced by those that want a classic tower.
Going by past Apple releases, I expect the design to be forward thinking but it may take time for
some to warm to it and some may never like it.

I do think Apple might consider licensing OS X and providing developer support to select
workstation manufacturers (Boxx, Puget) that will satisfy the needs of that heavy iron high end crowd.

In a sense it would be an officially supported Hackintosh but at least it would cover the needs of the
extreme high end of the user base.

Brian Timmons
BRITIM/MEDIA
 
Didn't see that coming

https://browser.geekbench.com/v4/cpu/13039711

Operating System: macOS 10.14.3 (Build 18D42)
Model: iMacPro1,1
Motherboard: Apple Inc. Mac-7BA5B2D9E42DDD94 1.0
BIOS: Apple Inc. 220.200.252.0.0

Name: AMD Ryzen Threadripper 2990WX
Topology: 1 Processor, 32 Cores, 64 Threads
Identifier: AuthenticAMD Family 23 Model 8 Stepping 2
Base Frequency: 3.00 GHz
 
Misha Engel said:
Didn't see that coming

https://browser.geekbench.com/v4/cpu/13039711

Operating System: macOS 10.14.3 (Build 18D42)
Model: iMacPro1,1
Motherboard: Apple Inc. Mac-7BA5B2D9E42DDD94 1.0
BIOS: Apple Inc. 220.200.252.0.0

Name: AMD Ryzen Threadripper 2990WX
Topology: 1 Processor, 32 Cores, 64 Threads
Identifier: AuthenticAMD Family 23 Model 8 Stepping 2
Base Frequency: 3.00 GHz
Click to expand...

Hackintosh
 
I'm not sure if I'm more nervous or excited to see what or even if Apple shows at WWDC regarding the MacPro. Can they really completely ignore it again? I think we all fully expect a sneak peek as they did with the iMacPro at the very least.
 
With Apples fortunes more linked to services than Mac sales, it would seem prudent for Apple to give an update on (or demo of) their high end ambition - or risk the hangers-on migrating to Linux/Windows and accelerate the shrinking of the Mac Pro ecosystem.

AJ
 
To borrow one of Phil's favorite adages, is the juice worth the squeeze? Is Apple capable of making a Mac for content creators that would fit our needs? If they really want to, probably yes. How much would they have to sell them for, ballpark, to make the kind of margins Apple wants? Not cheap. How many would they have to sell at those prices to wash out the up front costs (NRE/R&D/etc) to get to a 20% or better profit level?

If I were Apple, I'd string along the key potential customer base(s) until I could leverage a step forward in tech to make some noise. Sure, any slight technical edge in one particular performance parameter will likely be fleeting - but for a brief time they can crow and get the kind of buzz that can goose sales. Putting out a meh mMP at a high price just to save face would be some expensive vanity (yes Virginia, not the first time). FWIW, I'd rather throw down for a mid-2020 shredder than a late 2019 legacy laden kludge-fest.

Cheers - #19
 
TBH, I think Apple already produce systems (mobile and desktop) that satisfy the majority needs of content creators.

There are however gaps in what they cover particularly with 3D, VFX, and higher end film/video production workflows.

I have faith that what Apple releases will be something that further empowers (perhaps profoundly) the user base but I'm
not sure if it will fit in with the way things are commonly done within certain corners of the industry.
It should be noted that what we call "high end workflows" or "production pipelines" are not always the most forward thinking approaches
but are tested, industry approved, and deemed reliable.

My observation is that the decision makers in the industry want advancements but with something familiar that they can integrate with minimal effort and Apple is driven by leveraging the latest tech in ways that can sometimes be disruptive to large organizations that are slow to adapt. This is one of the reasons why throughout Apple's history they were often at odds with enterprise customers.

I always welcome Apple's contributions as they tend to make sense in the long term BUT they should also do what they can to cater in some way to the crowd that might require something that don't completely align with their vision (i.e rack mounted towers, large box PCI systems, Nvidia, CUDA and some encroachment on 3rd party developers).

One encouraging sign is Apple apparently have been studying how pros (small and large) work and are supposedly designing the 2019 Mac Pro accordingly.
https://techcrunch.com/2018/04/05/apples-2019-imac-pro-will-be-shaped-by-workflows/

We'll see.

Brian Timmons
BRITIM/MEDIA
 
It may not be what we all want it to be, but we know it's going to be powerful, otherwise what's the point? The iMacPro is beast as it is, or at least it was when it came out, thermals aside. Top spec iMac is pretty powerful now too. Even the new MacMini is pretty dope. We can be assured the MacPro will be made to one up the iMacPro. Apple's been on a better trend with hardware lately, the updates on the MacBookPros are clear indication of that, expecially if they update them again soon like expected.

It's going to have powerful processor options. Possibly dual socket?
At least a 128GB RAM option or more, 256?
At least one fast PCIe SSD Boot drive, hopefully at least two physical SSDs.
Same IO as the iMacPro or more...4 Thunderbolt 3, 4 USB-A, 10gbe (x2?)
GPU options? Probably at least two? Not sure if standard PCIe. AMD only?
One or two free PCIe slots? Here's hoping.
Oh...and it will come in Space Gray.
 
4
Jarek Zabczynski said:
It may not be what we all want it to be, but we know it's going to be powerful, otherwise what's the point? The iMacPro is beast as it is, or at least it was when it came out, thermals aside.
Click to expand...

That’s a pretty big aside. Our iMac Pro has been similar to the TrashCan in that regard. Throttles and will eventually shut down if you slam it with work for more than 30 minutes or so.
 
With Intel’s Foveros architecture catering for 1Kw per SoC, and NV’s / AMD high end data centre GPU’s likely competing with Intels Xe GPU - It seems probable that future HPCs will need upward of 2Kw for the highest spec dual GPUs.

If Apple are to avoid another 500W ‘Thermal corner’ - perhaps we will see a two box MMP offering?
+) A <250W enclosure at the old location : Siri, Face id, wide angle camera, Thunderbolt ports, SSD, USB, Small integrated speaker
+) A 2KW number crunching enclosure back end that can be placed out of immediate earshot, and connected by a proprietary high bandwidth connector.

AJ
 
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