New Mac Pros in 2013

[Craig W. Bickerstaff]

Why didn't they release an E5 with USB3 at bare minimum? I mean that would of pissed people off less...

It would take away from the potential impact that next years machines will have and no doubt when the did arrive people would complain that the processors were the same as the tiny revamp the previous year and distract from all the cool features that were supposed to compliment the new processors.

 

[Mike Halper]

They havent lost traction. Its not like the cost of an Smoke suitel Its $300!! Thats a quarter of Sapphire alone

Are you serious? Have you read other threads here or on other boards? People are talking about jumping ship to Windows all over the place, and even more going to Premiere Pro or Avid and not looking back. And a bunch did it with no release of a new Mac Pro a couple weeks ago at WWDC. That's losing traction, at least in our industry they are.

 

[Mike Halper]

Why didn't they release an E5 with USB3 at bare minimum? I mean that would of pissed people off less...

Supply issues on the E5 from what Jeff says. Also, the E5 isn't THAT much better than what out now or something. Also, lack of boards or chipsets for USB 3.0 AND Thunderbolt, or something like that. My guess would be a complete redesign with a whole new concept for the Mac Pro, not the tower design we're all used to. And that takes time for all the right pieces to fall into place, and Apple likes to take their time. Plus, who knows what else Apple has up its sleeves.

 

[Hywel Phillips]

I'm wondering if they are going for retina displays across the board. That would certainly distinguish the Apple experience from everyone else.

If that's the way they are going, new MacPros could be waiting on a reliable manufacturing process for large retina monitors, and graphics cards to drive them. And of doing such a major revamp they might well go for a complete redesign, too.

I know it is a little bit like a beggar at the banquet being thrown crumbs, but I thought the twin announcements that FCP X was going to get native R3D support and the 2013 promise for a MacPro redesign are enough to keep me on the Mac platform for now. Mac OS + FCP X + Aperture + Phocus + RED CINE + Resolve = a *REALLY* nice environment in which to work.

And if they can manage to put all of that onto a 27" or 30" Retina display big enough to display 4K natively, with processing power and GPU grunt enough to display it we'll suddenly stop hearing all these moans about switching platform, I think

Cheers, Hywel.

 

[Mike Halper]

I agree with you, Hywel. Hopefully that's what will happen, or something like it at least.

 

[Gary Stone]

Windows = Never again.

 

[Mike Garrick]

Agree with you there Gary ...the pain of Windows .

I was recently at a local event where 3 operating systems we in a sort of editing shootout using the same Pro Rez 442 material & were given about an hour to have something to show. Anyway there were 2 Apple systems, one running FCP 7 & the other CS6 with the third system running Avid MC6 on windows. All systems were "supposedly" setup & run by pros.

The long & short of it, the apple based systems ran faultlessly the Avid system crashed twice with a painful reboot & long hang times. Now yes I shouldn't take this as a gospel with PC's or for that matter Avid, no one should do that. But what it did do was cause me to reflect on how in a previous life all my post production was performed on pro PC gear with similar crashes, bugs & update crap. It all came back to me & really no way do I want to revisit it. Having said that I felt sorry for the Avid editor as I judged his work as the best.

So that's why I have been hanging out for a new Mac Pro.....but those 15 inch Mac Book Pros sure look tempting particularly as my current Mac Book with thunder bolt port is coming up for renewal at the end of the year. Which leads to a painful observation about Thunderbolt. I have had my current Mac Book for 18 months & only in the last couple of months has there been anything to plug thunderbolt into! If this is the pathway for the new Mac Pro with features than I will not bother & may have to be dragged kicking & screaming back into PC world. (sigh)

 

[Matt Gottshalk]

Sounds to me like a "shootout" meant to achieve a preordained outcome.

Sounds familiar.

My PC edits ProRes, Avid DNxHD, P2, DSLR, AVCHD and 5k Red files natively with no conversion or hiccups, and it screams through them all.

Windows 7 is just as stable as OSX these days.

 

[Alex Mills]

Matt can you share your pc components setup?

thanks

Sounds to me like a "shootout" meant to achieve a preordained outcome.

Sounds familiar.

My PC edits ProRes, Avid DNxHD, P2, DSLR, AVCHD and 5k Red files natively with no conversion or hiccups, and it screams through them all.

Windows 7 is just as stable as OSX these days.

 

[Jarek Zabczynski]

I think the main differences in the PC experience vs. the Apple experience lay with the user. For a smooth PC experience you really need to have somewhat of a PC background and know the operating system well enough to know what to do and not to do. Let's face it, it's pretty easy for a novice to mess their PC up into oblivion. Not so much on the OSX side. You really would have to try hard to mess up OSX. That's the thing, the OS is more transparent in the Apple world, it's allows creatives who aren't computer savvy to be able to work and not worry about things as much.

For the most part, most of the guys that claim Windows is great and have rock solid systems that never crash probably built these systems themselves from scratch. I would hope you have a rock solid system. These people aren't the one's that need any convincing about anything because they know enough about it all to make everything work right. Most people do not, and many editors don't know how to troubleshoot their systems. The one's that do, more power to them.

 

[Matt Gottshalk]

Matt can you share your pc components setup?

thanks

Yes sir:

Coolermaster HAF X case
Intel I7 3960 CPU (overclocked)
ASUS|RAMPAGE IV EXTREME X79 MB
EVGA GTX580 1.5GB Nvidia Card (GUI)
EVGA GTX580 3.0GB Nvidia Card (GPU)
PSU SILVERSTONE| ST1500 1500W power Supply
OCZ 480gb SSD (boot)
2 3tb Enterprise class HDs (storage)
BlackMagic Extreme HD 3D
RED Rocket Card
Areca SAS external controller
Corsair Vengeance 64gb DDR3 memory
HA100 closed loop liquid cpu cooler

Maxx Digital 16tb SAS External Raid 5

 

[Mike Halper]

Yeah, I hear Windows 7 is very stable these days. I would't be surprised. However, I personally just don't like using Windows.

I have a pretty extensive PC computer background. Got my first one back in the 80's all the way back to the 8086 with IBM DOS and MS-DOS. Used Windows since 3.0, beta tested Chicago which became Windows 95. Have a network administration/engineering degree and Microsoft and Cisco certifications all the way through Windows XP. I'm very well-versed in using Windows, tweaking it, fixing it, etc. I'd have no problem being able to keep a Windows computer operating perfectly. And I still hate Windows now. I don't want to have to do any of that. I've hated Windows ever since I learned Avid on a Mac, bought a Mac with OS 9 and Final Cut Pro 1.0, and then got OS X 10.0.0. For years I was a Windows fanboy, bashed Mac and all, especially when there was no software and Apple was all but done (until Steve Jobs returned to Apple and turned things around). Then I was forced to use a Mac for editing and saw the errors of my ways and the brilliance that is Mac OS and the quality of Mac computers.

So Jarek's got it right, except that even some of us who can blindly operate with and fix Windows don't like working with Windows. OS X is that much better to use. Of course it's always personal preference.

 

[Mike Halper]

Hey Matt, that looks like a mean machine you built there. Would you mind letting us know how much that beast cost?

 

[Matt Gottshalk]

Around $10k-ish, minus the external storage, which I reused from my old mac Pro

 

[Mike Halper]

Thanks. That's good info to know.

 

[Alex Mills]

A beast indeed, thanks Matt

Yes sir:

Coolermaster HAF X case
Intel I7 3960 CPU (overclocked)
ASUS|RAMPAGE IV EXTREME X79 MB
EVGA GTX580 1.5GB Nvidia Card (GUI)
EVGA GTX580 3.0GB Nvidia Card (GPU)
PSU SILVERSTONE| ST1500 1500W power Supply
OCZ 480gb SSD (boot)
2 3tb Enterprise class HDs (storage)
BlackMagic Extreme HD 3D
RED Rocket Card
Areca SAS external controller
Corsair Vengeance 64gb DDR3 memory
HA100 closed loop liquid cpu cooler

Maxx Digital 16tb SAS External Raid 5

 

[Christoffer Glans]

When working in Resolve, Premiere, Avid, AE or whatever... does it matter if it's OSX or Windows? They are both equally stable if you do professional work.
We are not talking about the home computer stuffed with games and videos of your pets, we are talking about professional grade setups for actual work.
The entire cluster of Mac Pros at my day job are less stable then my PC workstation at home. Windows 7 is stable, OSX is in my experience of professional work, NOT.
Reason? Because hardware isn't up to date.

I find it rather funny that people are screaming for new mac pro's when all you need to do is find the components that fits your workflow and combine them into a PC dedicated to that work.
In that way you will get, for a less price, an up to date workstation capable of more then you can do with Macs.

Or did you miss the Red HP-workstation news? No wonder Red like PC's when it comes to high end performance. Apple is for mail/internet/media presentation etc. it's for everything outside high end performance workflows.

What arguments against this does really exist? Your software is the same on either platform, you do not "edit in OSX".

 

[Mike Halper]

When working in Resolve, Premiere, Avid, AE or whatever... does it matter if it's OSX or Windows? They are both equally stable if you do professional work.
We are not talking about the home computer stuffed with games and videos of your pets, we are talking about professional grade setups for actual work.
The entire cluster of Mac Pros at my day job are less stable then my PC workstation at home. Windows 7 is stable, OSX is in my experience of professional work, NOT.
Reason? Because hardware isn't up to date.

I find it rather funny that people are screaming for new mac pro's when all you need to do is find the components that fits your workflow and combine them into a PC dedicated to that work.
In that way you will get, for a less price, an up to date workstation capable of more then you can do with Macs.

Or did you miss the Red HP-workstation news? No wonder Red like PC's when it comes to high end performance. Apple is for mail/internet/media presentation etc. it's for everything outside high end performance workflows.

What arguments against this does really exist? Your software is the same on either platform, you do not "edit in OSX".

Just because the hardware isn't up to date, doesn't make the OS unstable. Stability has to do with crashes, kernel panics, freezing, etc. And my experience is that OS X is very stable. But things are different for everyone.

It's not just about using the applications. There's configuring the system, installing and uninstalling hardware and drivers, and installing and uninstalling software. With OS X that's a lot easier. There's no registry, which in Windows is a pain to deal with when you need to remove something. Uninstallers never get everything, so you're stuck having to fix the registry or eventually starting from scratch. With OS X you just delete the files. Done. Simple as that.

 

[Jon Thomasberg]

Just because the hardware isn't up to date, doesn't make the OS unstable. Stability has to do with crashes, kernel panics, freezing, etc. And my experience is that OS X is very stable. But things are different for everyone.

It's not just about using the applications. There's configuring the system, installing and uninstalling hardware and drivers, and installing and uninstalling software. With OS X that's a lot easier. There's no registry, which in Windows is a pain to deal with when you need to remove something. Uninstallers never get everything, so you're stuck having to fix the registry or eventually starting from scratch. With OS X you just delete the files. Done. Simple as that.

Just because the hardware isn't up to date, doesn't make the OS unstable. Stability has to do with crashes, kernel panics, freezing, etc. And my experience is that OS X is very stable. But things are different for everyone.

It's not just about using the applications. There's configuring the system, installing and uninstalling hardware and drivers, and installing and uninstalling software. With OS X that's a lot easier. There's no registry, which in Windows is a pain to deal with when you need to remove something. Uninstallers never get everything, so you're stuck having to fix the registry or eventually starting from scratch. With OS X you just delete the files. Done. Simple as that.

Mike,

I agree that the registry is a complete PITA and doesn't exist on OS X --As are BSODs, virii, the less-than-steller GUI interface, crap psuedo-DOS command shell (that *still* has no native SSH, md5, SHA1, SSL support, ugh!), required vigilance in downloading updates to patch exploits.....the list goes on ad nausium, however the truth is you simply cannot buy a MacPro that can come remotely close to the horsepower of the newer PC builds for a purpose-built workstation: CPU, RAM, I/O options, not to mention available PCI cardslots (without having to resort to something like a expander chassis) to give you more than 4 PCI slots, lest we forget driver support for the aforementioned. Thankfully SmallTree came out with an OS X driver for an Intel X520-T2 or I would be screwed on connecting my 10Gb Ethernet NAS units to my MacPros over the CAT6A network rather than having to run multimode and connect point-to-point patchcords via SFP+ NICs everywhere. Unfortunately, when you have a need for speed and our beloved Apple decides "F* the Pro market, we'll make a new MP when we are good and GD ready!" people have to find alternatives. The show must go on. While many (including me, most likely) will open their wallet and buy the new MP in another year (or whenever it *actually* drops), but until then people are tired of waiting around for an upgrade path and have been eagerly awaiting them to get their act together for years. Let's face it, the last 2 MP refreshes have been 'meh' at best, and a kick in the nuts at worst. I am sure you agree, and I guess I am partially venting my frustration towards Apple as much as I am making a statement.

However, while I am Mac'd-out both at home and in our post house, I had to make some Windows machines to do the job. And to rebut your argument that 'With OS X you just delete the files. Done. Simple as that." it is simply not true. Perhaps you were oversimplifying your statement to demonstrate its relative ease. Either way, while OS X is a heck of a lot cleaner in dealing with unistalls, perhaps you forgot about all the other traces left behind, such as ~/Library/Preferences , ~/Library/Application Support, all the .plist and log files, etc. which are not deleted by simply dragging the app package from /Applications to the Trash.

 

[Mike Halper]

Mike,

I agree that the registry is a complete PITA and doesn't exist on OS X --As are BSODs, virii, the less-than-steller GUI interface, crap psuedo-DOS command shell (that *still* has no native SSH, md5, SHA1, SSL support, ugh!), required vigilance in downloading updates to patch exploits.....the list goes on ad nausium, however the truth is you simply cannot buy a MacPro that can come remotely close to the horsepower of the newer PC builds for a purpose-built workstation: CPU, RAM, I/O options, not to mention available PCI cardslots (without having to resort to something like a expander chassis) to give you more than 4 PCI slots, lest we forget driver support for the aforementioned. Thankfully SmallTree came out with an OS X driver for an Intel X520-T2 or I would be screwed on connecting my 10Gb Ethernet NAS units to my MacPros over the CAT6A network rather than having to run multimode and connect point-to-point patchcords via SFP+ NICs everywhere. Unfortunately, when you have a need for speed and our beloved Apple decides "F* the Pro market, we'll make a new MP when we are good and GD ready!" people have to find alternatives. The show must go on. While many (including me, most likely) will open their wallet and buy the new MP in another year (or whenever it *actually* drops), but until then people are tired of waiting around for an upgrade path and have been eagerly awaiting them to get their act together for years. Let's face it, the last 2 MP refreshes have been 'meh' at best, and a kick in the nuts at worst. I am sure you agree, and I guess I am partially venting my frustration towards Apple as much as I am making a statement.

However, while I am Mac'd-out both at home and in our post house, I had to make some Windows machines to do the job. And to rebut your argument that 'With OS X you just delete the files. Done. Simple as that." it is simply not true. Perhaps you were oversimplifying your statement to demonstrate its relative ease. Either way, while OS X is a heck of a lot cleaner in dealing with unistalls, perhaps you forgot about all the other traces left behind, such as ~/Library/Preferences , ~/Library/Application Support, all the .plist and log files, etc. which are not deleted by simply dragging the app package from /Applications to the Trash.

Well, OS X doesn't get BSOD's, but I have seen it kernel panic where the screen wipes with a superimposed message that you must shut down the computer. It's rare, but not unheard of. There's also the Terminal to equal DOS, though much more powerful than DOS. Correct-o-mundo on the GUI, which is partly why I prefer OS X.

You are completely correct on the hardware side, at least for now. There have been times when Mac hardware surpassed PC hardware, especially in the notebook area, and sometimes in the desktop area (like right now I think). The boost in performance you get form the PC hardware right now would not always be utilized. For intensive things like rendering, transcoding, etc. of course. But if you're just playing back ProRes media and cutting a movie most likely the current or even an older Mac Pro will handle it just fine. Heck, I can edit 4K and 5K R3D's in Premiere Pro CS6 on my 17" MBP right now. Will it take longer for me to render it out when done editing? Sure. Gives me more reason to take a longer break, which God knows I need. Haha! Personally, I'd rather work in OS X on a slower machine than in Windows on a faster one. But I know not everyone has the luxury of that choice like I do. Some need the extra power and don't have any other option right now. It's going to be different for each person because we all have different jobs we're doing and different expectations.

And, correct, I was simplifying my argument to demonstrate that it is in fact that easier than dealing with Windows. A Spotlight search will bring up nearly all those files if they are left behind and you want to delete them. And then there's the fact that if they are just sitting there and are not called by anything then they don't use any resources to slow the computer, unlike the Windows registry. All they do is use up a little bit of hard drive space that would be relatively unnoticeable. Point is, it's a lot easier to manage OS X than Windows. I've managed both extensively and can work 100x faster in OS X than in Windows.