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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

New Mac Pros in 2013

Meh. CS6 on PC FTW. Glad Apple is experimenting, but they should have continued maturing FCP7 for the pro line and introduced FCPX as the up and comer in the middle. The way they approached the FCPX launch means that they can't be relied on. FCPX will mature eventually, and I'm sure some folks will add it to their quiver as an alternative tool, but it would be foolish to trust Apple not to leave everyone in the lurch again with some future release. The zealots may flame me for saying it, but the pro market is simply not a priority for Apple. I don't know how much clearer Cupertino could broadcast that message. Meanwhile, Adobe is just kicking ass, and I expect they may incorporate some of the odd bits of FCPX that are actually worth being influenced by.
 
Apple was never there to rely on.
Its up to the user to use what is offered.
Its a choice no guns pointed to anyone's head.
The way most are treating this release seems like a G8 convention :P
It seems that no matter what news is released from the Apple side of things, the ones that have all this pent up angst wants to make it known that they have a voice.
Well you do but no one listens to when your not thinking and talking clear.
If you havent notice, the Apple bitch-fest database can easily be keyworded for the Event Browser ;)
 
Tim Morten said:
The way they approached the FCPX launch means that they can't be relied on. FCPX will mature eventually, and I'm sure some folks will add it to their quiver as an alternative tool, but it would be foolish to trust Apple not to leave everyone in the lurch again with some future release.
Click to expand...

Adobe once stopped development of Premiere on the Mac too. Why are they to be trusted again?


Just using your own logic...

I'm not sure that the future of FCP X is bright, but it sure is interesting. It was a bad launch, but there have been many important updates in the meanwhile, and a lot of extra ones coming in 2012 (announced officially).
 
Mike Garrick said:
Those work arounds you describe & lack of "Rock solid" audio sync are killers for me.
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I just want to be clear that there was never an issue of anything out-of-sync in the primary storyline. It's just that there are time when you have to separate audio and video and in X there are is no way to guarantee or even indicate correct sync once you've done that. So you have to be careful. Some of the issues I had, where I called it "rubbery" had to do with the roundtrips and slomo clips affecting the clips that followed.

Mike Garrick said:
I noted how FCP 7 was used in the workflow of the project, surely that says something about exactly where FCPX is right now.
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Don't make too much of that. Apple is going down a certain path with X, which is designed to offload more complex workflows (with a minuscule number of users) to third party developers. That means you have to use tools other than X and for me FCP7 largely served as a conduit for these purposes. Right now, for RED workflows, X plus RCXP and Resolve are the tools most important to you - IF - you want to use X.

Related to the MacPro question, it's worth noting that X is optimized for the Sandy Bridge architecture, so performance on an iMac with a T-bolt RAID is much better than on a MacPro with eSATA drives.

- Oliver
 
I get why pros bash on FCPX, but I friggin love it. I dare say that if people actually took training to see Apple's intended workflow for it and not try to run it like any other NLE, I think a lot more people would come around.

That said, this thread is about the new Mac Pros.

My question is this: Why would Apple release what I consider to be a new paradigm in non linear editing, that supports 4K resolution, if they didn't plan on putting out the hardware to run it properly at those resolutions?? Of course they're going to release a (truly) new Mac Pro. The "FCPX is just iMovie on steroids" argument just doesn't hold water anymore. FCPX is a hyper-smart elegant editing platform and once it supports more pro camera codecs natively, it will truly (thank god) replace FCP 7.

Just my 2 cents.
 
Gary Stone said:
FCPX is a hyper-smart elegant editing platform and once it supports more pro camera codecs natively, it will truly (thank god) replace FCP 7.
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Possibly a little more enthusiasm than I can generate for FCP X today but I really am hopeful this will be the case. Premiere Pro 6 is not FCP 8 but rather a 64-bit version of FCP 4.5 with better codec support. Media Composer 6 is an excellent tool for what it intended to do but I still feel like I must always negotiate with it. Neither is going to replace FCP 7 for me, but I am excited to see what happens with FCP X this year. Like Kilgroe I am getting past the "pissed-off at Apple" thing and appreciating more what they have done. I sometimes find myself editing in other NLEs and wishing "I wish I could do this the way it works in FCP X."

What if Apple really does have a plan for all this power and they really are going to follow through? Wouldn't it be great if it were true?
 
Hey Gary

Not really pissed off at FCPX more pissed at Apple . I'm just trying to remember when FCP became gold around FCP6 from memory. Anyway hopefully like FCP 6, FCPX can come good. What bugs me, irrespective of workflow differences, a new platform is meant to the better than the earlier version & this patently is not the case yet for FCP X. For Apple they can take another year to hone FCPX features in the mean time, in the real business world, we are meant to suffer below par performance. It still amazes me for the folks not editing R3D how much "big stuff' is still being cut on FCP 7 a system that is no longer supported & often thats in preference to MC 6!

Anyway enough of flogging that dead horse.....Hopefully there will be new Pro Macs with thunderbolt ports.

CS 6 runs well on current Mac Pro's with Nvidia cards. My system is still chugging along, by the time 2013 comes around it will be 5 years old...Im not sure what that says about a) Mac Pro Build quality b) Corporate planning c) after leasing owning it . However what I am becoming aware of are the new 15inch Retina display Mac Books with thunderbolt & dual external monitoring options as described by Mark Toia & Michael Cioni on other threads . Do we still need a big tower sitting on a desk ? How will this new Mac compete with say the HP RED offering? Hardware specs. are way above my head others can talk about terraflops with ease, myself I'm not about hardware but about workflow.....& that seems like the future to me sitting in a highly portable "lappy bag" & saying goodbye to the notion of vast post production houses & costs. Where that leaves the Mac Pro's I'm not sure.....but I still bloody well want a new one !
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
FCPX is awesome in it's own way. My kids love it. I have not encountered a more easy to use NLE that packs that much power into one app. It's all a matter of perspective and most of what people still complain about has been remedied. Sure, it's not the ideal tool for editing R3D or working with footage in resolutions above 1080p, but I think people are too hard on it. Apple is definitely on to something here and they have had a couple good updates to show they're committed to improving it. There are a few features in FCPX that I wish I had in Premiere or Avid... Just sayin...

And that's my current opinion. I bashed FCPX relentlessly when it was first released. Even got my money back from Apple. ...Have since bought it again and have found it to be very useful for certain projects.
Click to expand...

I value your comments Jeff.
I'm going to wait for r3d support before I have another look at it though.

cheers.
 
Mathieu Ghekiere said:
Adobe once stopped development of Premiere on the Mac too. Why are they to be trusted again?


Just using your own logic...

I'm not sure that the future of FCP X is bright, but it sure is interesting. It was a bad launch, but there have been many important updates in the meanwhile, and a lot of extra ones coming in 2012 (announced officially).
Click to expand...

Yes, the launch was bad on every level. So bad that most people that bailed won't bother to notice if any updates come along. I'll admit that I haven't cared at all what FCPX is doing. I returned it within a week and am staying in FCP7 until I need to leave for something better. I the meantime I'm playing with Premiere when I can. FCPX doesn't interest me in the slightest. FCP8 is the only thing that would peak my interests at this point...which I have heard rumblings about from a couple people.
 
We may find out on Wednesday night. Apple is attending the Los Angeles FCP User Group. The website says "Significant new feature releases".

http://www.lafcpug.org/user_schedule.html

Almost immediately after installing FCPX I complained to Apple and got my refund. I was that disappointed. Switched to MC 5.5, and then upgraded to MC 6. Actually didn't like MC, and that's what I started on years ago. Then I went to Premiere Pro CS5.5 and now CS6, and am mostly very happy. I could live with Premiere Pro. But Apple has been doing a good job in my opinion of adding pro features to FCPX. It's still not perfect, but I would consider it for a serious project once the features they announced around NAB actually come out because of it's speed. Those new features will have meant that pretty much all of my major negatives have been addressed. FCPX is good enough of Leverage, so it should be good enough for most, but it really comes down to personal preference. So... we'll see.
 
Hopefully FCPX improves with added functionality like native RED and Arri Raw workflows. Even more so than FCP 7, FCPX has some great functionality and creative approaches to helping editors be more creative faster. It's just not production faclility friendly enough yet.

I've felt that FCP7 is something that worked but was really a lesser of a bunch of evils. You have to know quite a few work-arounds to get your project out and about. That being said the world of editing software seems to be evolving faster than ever.

With all the hardware changes that have gone on with Apple, from the loss of the 17" MBP to the barely updated MP leads it seems that price per value lies with PC's and a good video card. Adobe seems to be picking up a lot of slack and with Speedgrade beginning to be integrated too. One could probably buy the Adobe production suite with what one would save buying a PC vs an Apple product.
 
It's possible that the 17inch will return next year after all if they couldn't offer one with a retina display which would likely be 3840x2400 then why even bother doing one as anyone would just take the 15inch retina MBP instead after all thats when the proper mac pro will come out, I think the mac pro update was just a half assed effort to hold the people who can't wait until whatever time next year to upgrade, you never know they could be ramping the external displays as well. Who wouldn't want a 5120 x 2880 retina 27inch thunderbolt display or 2 to go along with a killer new Mac Pro.
 
David, you are right. I think when they can make a FCPX workflow run fluidly without the need for going to FCP7 or Premiere Pro then Apple may have succeeded in what they want to do. But every week that goes by they lose more and more users, so Apple has to really do something tremendous to keep the users they still have and earn back the ones that already left.

I wouldn't recommend jumping to Windows yet. I agree with Craig. Apple has stated new Mac Pros are coming next year. The fact that there was only the minor speed bump I think is an indication to a major overhaul and complete redesign of the Mac Pro. Apple is a smart and innovative company that likes to reinvent the wheel, sometimes more often than we'd all like.

The 17" may come back, I agree. I think a big reason why it didn't was supply and yield of the Retina display. The other reason is because apparently Apple wasn't selling enough of the 17" anyway, so maybe it will never return. I have a 17" now and have the Retina on the way. It will be interesting to see if I miss the 17" with the added resolution and relative increased workspace of the 15" Retina. I may find no need for a 17" after all.
 
I wouldn't recommend jumping to Windows yet. I agree with Craig. Apple has stated new Mac Pros are coming next year. The fact that there was only the minor speed bump I think is an indication to a major overhaul and complete redesign of the Mac Pro. Apple is a smart and innovative company that likes to reinvent the wheel, sometimes more often than we'd all like.
Click to expand...

You do understand how this is impossible for those who edit and do post production as a living? "Hold on, wait til next year", "oh they are gonna fix it"?
When FCPx came out I bashed it and everybody said to me that "they'll fix it next week, it's just a bad launch", well all things aren't fixed even at this time and I have to say I was dead right.
For professionals who care about giving clients the best possible and fast workflow it's total garbage. I wouldn't rely on it for critical work and ALL my clients are critical.
The ones I know who still uses FCP professionally all use FCP7, non use FCPx and all the post production houses have switched to Avid or CS5.5/CS6.

You didn't have to be a prophet or fortune teller to connect the dots and see that FCPx was DOA.
 
So all of a sudden everyone's computers just stopped working and are unusable? FCP was the only thing a Mac is good for? There's no other editing software that runs on Macs? You're assuming I don't make a living editing or doing other work in post. Note that I was talking about switching from Mac to Windows, not from FCP or FCPX to another editing software. I even switched from FCP7 to Premiere Pro (tried Avid first too, but didn't like it even though I started with Avid years ago) myself, but I'm still keeping an eye on FCPX because it does some very cool things and is fast and powerful.
 
I own up, I guess I helped started this argument on this thread..........

But it just shows how after 18 months the whole FCP 7 vs FCPX still generates so much heat. Wow shows how passionate we can be about NLE software & shows how corporate over promising & under delivery pisses people off .

Anyway trying to move the topic back onto this thread, as opposed to the 3 millionth thread bashing FCPX.

What exactly are we after in new MAC PRO irrespective of the NLE ? Myself I'm after thunderbolt ports & maybe as rumoured "Apple Cuda" with dual retina display. Does this justify a 3 year wait?
 
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Mike Halper said:
... But every week that goes by they lose more and more users...
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They havent lost traction. Its not like the cost of an Smoke suitel Its $300!! Thats a quarter of Sapphire alone :)
 
Why didn't they release an E5 with USB3 at bare minimum? I mean that would of pissed people off less...
 
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