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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

New Mac Pro

I have ran windows since Dos actually, did win 3.1 95,(something in between here or after next cant remember) vista, 7, and 8. Recently for two years I serviced 5 PC Avid bays at my former position and set up their new Evo so they have 50TB of media now logged and captured by me as well in Avid, so by no means is it a fear of the pc ecosystem, I use it a ton. I say former because I have been completely unemployed for a month and a half now and sadly they got nothing for me so I am kinda in a crunch during a bad time of the year lol...

so I want to build something capable on a budget and ideally want to stay OSX cuz thats all I currently run at home and its cheaper to stick with the apps I have. I am obviously aware of dualboot options like parerells and bootcamp, but need a capable system before I can really worry about dual booting it and the costs of rebuying all my apps. its just things add up fast price wise...even looking at the Mac Pro base stock stuff plus tax is like wow what am I thinking my family is gonna lynch me if it doesn't work out...hell i can join the guild for not much more then that might be a safer bet lol! I'm just trying to make the best choices for my needs but with a limited budget my options aren't great... I'm really worried to spend money unwisely and have no realistic idea what my client base will be, or if I just land another cushy full time everything provided to me job but I figure if I don't get my own freelancing cart I won't get the work and my camera work doesn't come in either so at this point I just leave it at a rental house, which works out nicely but still leaves me a bit short... Perhaps your right and I should go for windows but the costs of the apps kind of negate the savings even if my cheap i7 solution does cost less...its just a tough choice to make for me, and I been weighing it more and more lately since I want to at least be ready for when things pick up and budgets start coming in this year... for all I know I don't go back to that post house is the issue, restructuring and tough times might mean moving on to new pastures and its just sort of a transition period for me...

so seeing how well the Mac Pros work in Redcine, Resolve Lite, Avid, matters to me. I can't buy into CC so if I go to PC and don't hack OSX I lose my CS suite entirely... No reason for 6 since I am going for Dragon to keep the rentals coming in

Maz Mawlawi said:
It is amazing to me that in this day of age people still cling so personally to a specific OS platform...you really should open up your horizons and not be afraid to be cross platform. Today windows and MAC systems performs virtually identical...and most software is now cross platform. Use the best tools for the job. We found that windows workstations perform much better and are faster (due to better hardware options) than macs...on the other hand MAC laptops are way better than windows one....hence we live in a hybrid world. I find the trash can is to limiting....everything has to be external...it's gonna end up looking like an octopus not to mention the high cost of every TB2 enclosure and the possible limitation with rocket x etc.... Not sure why you some are so afraid of PC/windows...been running workstations for 3 years now non stop and not a single one failed or crashed or gave us any trouble. On the other hand PC laptops really suck....so I'd stay MAC all the way on that. ;)
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Jeff Kilgroe said:
SHIPPED!

Looks like I get the Mac Pro wednesday.

CTO 8-Core, 64GB, 1TB SSD, D700 GPUs.


I ordered a 24" 4K monitor from Dell to play with. Don't know when it will show up...
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Why did you order the Dell?! It doesn't work with the new Mac Pro yet! Only the current and upcoming 32-inch Sharp and Asus models work (maybe the Dell equivalent too) with the new Mac Pro at this time.
 
Brian Merlen said:
I have ran windows since Dos actually, did win 3.1 95,(something in between here or after next cant remember) vista, 7, and 8. Recently for two years I serviced 5 PC Avid bays at my former position and set up their new Evo so they have 50TB of media now logged and captured by me as well in Avid, so by no means is it a fear of the pc ecosystem, I use it a ton. I say former because I have been completely unemployed for a month and a half now and sadly they got nothing for me so I am kinda in a crunch during a bad time of the year lol...

so I want to build something capable on a budget and ideally want to stay OSX cuz thats all I currently run at home and its cheaper to stick with the apps I have. I am obviously aware of dualboot options like parerells and bootcamp, but need a capable system before I can really worry about dual booting it and the costs of rebuying all my apps. its just things add up fast price wise...even looking at the Mac Pro base stock stuff plus tax is like wow what am I thinking my family is gonna lynch me if it doesn't work out...hell i can join the guild for not much more then that might be a safer bet lol! I'm just trying to make the best choices for my needs but with a limited budget my options aren't great... I'm really worried to spend money unwisely and have no realistic idea what my client base will be, or if I just land another cushy full time everything provided to me job but I figure if I don't get my own freelancing cart I won't get the work and my camera work doesn't come in either so at this point I just leave it at a rental house, which works out nicely but still leaves me a bit short... Perhaps your right and I should go for windows but the costs of the apps kind of negate the savings even if my cheap i7 solution does cost less...its just a tough choice to make for me, and I been weighing it more and more lately since I want to at least be ready for when things pick up and budgets start coming in this year... for all I know I don't go back to that post house is the issue, restructuring and tough times might mean moving on to new pastures and its just sort of a transition period for me...

so seeing how well the Mac Pros work in Redcine, Resolve Lite, Avid, matters to me. I can't buy into CC so if I go to PC and don't hack OSX I lose my CS suite entirely... No reason for 6 since I am going for Dragon to keep the rentals coming in
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Gotcha! All valid points my friend
And for the record I really wasn't referring to you specifically with my post but more to the people of either side (windows or mac people) who will go through any pain just to stick to a specific OS even when it's not their best choice or the best tool . ;) I am OS agnostic...but on the other hand I am totally guilty of being a RED fan boy lol....
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
This is actually where they're headed with their MIC (Xeon Phi) tech...

Unfortunately, Xeon Phi hasn't been catching on in the market. I think Intel needs to find a better way to market these cards. They seem promising, yet no one is really interested in working with them.
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Yep, that was the name (they change names too much).

Bruce Allen said:
Intel don't need marketing. They need to just make those Xeon Phi cards do something useful like Resolve or V-Ray faster than the nVidia cards already do for less money.

There's a big difference between "promising" and "better than what's currently on the market".…

I guess that's why I just like nVidia's efforts as opposed to AMD and Intel's Xeon Phi. The nVidia stuff works and they put in the resources to work with the companies needed to get actual results.

If Intel and AMD actually feel like actually bothering to compete on a serious level, great. But I'll judge that in "can I use this hardware to make apps I want to use run faster for cheaper" rather than "ooh cool their architecture is so theoretically promising and has nice big FLOPS numbers" or whatever.

BTW Jeff, don't you think there will at least be a 1-series Xeon version of Haswell next year? It'd be awfully odd if there is an 8-core Haswell-E i7 Extreme processor but no Xeon model.
...

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
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It is a bit of an issue for them, they should have released and marketed the technology for people to develop apps. But the issue is that without a released base in desktops developers are reluctant to make apps work with it, nut people are reluctant to buy without it being better and supported. Hence why I was talking about transitioning by replacing a single processor with an array that he s in peoples desktops and allows developers to use, without bringing down the performance of apps that use the old cores too much; and by the use of a virtual software interface that could distribute new code across old and new processing technologies. Notice how I had specified processing solutions generically before, as the other issue is things like general purpose GPU processing density compared to Phi. All AMD's talk of revolutionizing processing performance by integrating GPU and CPU, what has happened? Probably scared Intel enough to sidelined larrabee and Phi. There was talk of the Intel technology coming to at least one gaming console, but they all went to AMD. Very telling, console manufacturers do not need to worry about main CPU based legacy apps, they just go for the lower cost higher performance solution, for them that is probably GPU related. With an abstracted virtual model AMD could have pushed programming towards mainly GP-GPU with token x86 processor support and away from x86 code dependence and revolutionized the market. But it did not happen, maybe because of what might happen with performance of legacy code in the meantime. As for Nvidia, the problem of unified gp-gpu memory space plagued the industry for a while, and having one GPU manufacturer out there with it and not the other two at first, would have slowed moves to a common GPU code base. MS, or open source/industry, needs to step up and make systems that make this possible, and OS's based on it.

Jeff Kilgroe said:
Oh, they do need some marketing help. They need to do what nVidia does. They need to give these cards to software developers and hold their hands along the way as they write software for this hardware. They need to send representatives around to the major software companies who know the hardware and developer tools inside and out, who can offer assistance.



Yep.
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That was my other point, and to pay software companies to put good support in the top workstation software that people would buy machines to have, also improving top games that would sell machines. Its been done before, and a step into the marker, but the fly in the ointment, is are you going to get anything over a GPU. The answer is surprisingly closer than we might think. Chuck Moore (the inventor of Forth, top processor designer, a key holder in the old TPL patent portfolio) designed the core of the color forth computer language around a minimal instruction set computing model which he also dies custom processor for that can use less than 10k transistors per multifunction processor with video support. He programmed most of the core on the x86 version on a one x86 instruction for one core instruction basis. So this probably represents a minimal strip down of the x86 instruction set at less than 10k transistors, probably 4k in reality and I've been working on a way to increase the basic math performance and reduce the transistor count further. Such a thing, with extra performance instructions, might form a general purpose computing portion of a GPU instruction set. So the actual loss of transistors to thus on a GPU engine might be negligible. So it us close, if you can drop the 4 kitchen sink and spurious features of the x86 to have a GPU. But if you retain a fair amount of x86 features, you bloat the GPU, reducing the number you can fit in a chip.

The more interesting thing is if you go MISC and add low transistor count versions of GPU friendly features. He has a misc design proposal for big data he wants to do. I don't know if it's suitability for graphics though. Still, you could use a misc module that correlated closely to x86 instruction set to maybe program any app, having the app perform on the main CPU with GPU code handled by calls, or on the Misc GPU. Thus, word and windows etc could be done in this code, but on a normal x86 it would run slower than a m gpu and be more limited than x86 code. The solution is to get rid of legacy support and just go to m GPU, I've been working towards such a model. Even in QDCA, such a design is going to be faster in clock rate, but pathway memory and storage speeds are still big slowing factors.
 
L. Langer said:
Why did you order the Dell?! It doesn't work with the new Mac Pro yet! Only the current and upcoming 32-inch Sharp and Asus models work (maybe the Dell equivalent too) with the new Mac Pro at this time.
Click to expand...

And it doesn't work because...?

It takes the same Displayport 1.2 MST input and I have it on good authority that it uses the same interface components as its 32" brothers. Had a good coupon last week and ordered for $1189 w/ free shipping. I don't know anyone who actually has the display yet, let alone any reports of it being connected to a new Mac Pro. If it doesn't work with the Mac for some odd f'd up reason, I'll use it on a different system if I like it, or if I don't like, I'll just send it back...
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
And it doesn't work because...?

It takes the same Displayport 1.2 MST input and I have it on good authority that it uses the same interface components as its 32" brothers. Had a good coupon last week and ordered for $1189 w/ free shipping. I don't know anyone who actually has the display yet, let alone any reports of it being connected to a new Mac Pro. If it doesn't work with the Mac for some odd f'd up reason, I'll use it on a different system if I like it, or if I don't like, I'll just send it back...
Click to expand...

Love your attitude Jeff ;)

Test the sh*t out of it!!!
 
Maz Mawlawi said:
It is amazing to me that in this day of age people still cling so personally to a specific OS platform...you really should open up your horizons and not be afraid to be cross platform. Today windows and MAC systems performs virtually identical...and most software is now cross platform. Use the best tools for the job. We found that windows workstations perform much better and are faster (due to better hardware options) than macs...on the other hand MAC laptops are way better than windows one....hence we live in a hybrid world. I find the trash can is to limiting....everything has to be external...it's gonna end up looking like an octopus not to mention the high cost of every TB2 enclosure and the possible limitation with rocket x etc.... Not sure why you some are so afraid of PC/windows...been running workstations for 3 years now non stop and not a single one failed or crashed or gave us any trouble. On the other hand PC laptops really suck....so I'd stay MAC all the way on that. ;)
Click to expand...

That's great and all but some softs only work on Mac or PC, and color management is far easier and more reliable on a Mac.
 
Karim Ayari said:
Here is a demonstration of the Dell 4K with Mac Pro.
Click to expand...

And there we go… He didn't set up MST mode for 60Hz, but I don't see any reason it wouldn't work. It's one of those more elusive things that no one ever discusses. On the 32" display, I'd leave it as 3840x2160 and not go to HiDPI mode… On the 24, it seems HiDPI is the more desirable way to go, but I guess I'll decide for myself when the monitor arrives.
 
Not sure why, but the tracking info for my Mac Pro claims it weighs 2.00lbs…
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
And it doesn't work because...?

It takes the same Displayport 1.2 MST input and I have it on good authority that it uses the same interface components as its 32" brothers. Had a good coupon last week and ordered for $1189 w/ free shipping. I don't know anyone who actually has the display yet, let alone any reports of it being connected to a new Mac Pro. If it doesn't work with the Mac for some odd f'd up reason, I'll use it on a different system if I like it, or if I don't like, I'll just send it back...
Click to expand...

It just doesn't work with the Mac Pro at this time and the internals of the monitor are not the same as what is in the 32-inch models. The 24-inch Dell has been out for a month and many people have confirmed it doesn't work. Even AnandTech tried it and got...nothing useful as using it in MST mode gives you something out of an acid trip and SST just gives you blah at 30hz. Cancel that order and pick up a 32-inch Sharp, Asus, or take your chances with the Dell equivalent. Those seem to be your only choices at this time until Apple finishes polishing OSX for 4K, which probably won't happen until the new crop of TB2 monitors hit the streets.
 
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Jeff Kilgroe said:
Not sure why, but the tracking info for my Mac Pro claims it weighs 2.00lbs…
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Call the shipper and have them double-check the packaging and the weight. Otherwise, you may end up with a brick. Literally. It's happened a lot with Apple products lately.
 
Could be an accessory or just a keyboard/mouse/apple care box?

On another note, any opinions on ES (engineering) chips? Any chance someone has messed with one in a 5,1 Pro (I'm seriously doubting a 6,1 has seen a surgery with one yet). I'd love to grab some ES 12C floating around me just to lessen the hurt on my wallet. Most of the 8C/10C chips run $600-1000, so I feel a major savings if OSX 10.9 can still recognize it and stay within a happy TDP.

On that note - thoughts on the 2690v2 vs 2667v2? 10C vs 8C (faster clock)?
 
I'm currently playing with the 3.5Ghz 6 Cores with 16GB of Ram and 2x D500.

I can confirm that REDCINEX is playing 4K (6:1) at 1/2 super fluidly with no slo downs whatsoever. At FULL it plays for a good 5sec straight and then it has to load another chunk, this might be because of the small amount of memory. (16GB)

Playing a 4K (8:1) at FULL resolution is playing for 20 seconds without skipping a frame. I'm really impressed. I think the 8 cores with the dual 700 will be AMAZING!
 
Resolve is not so good using version 10.0.2 - it skips really bad at 1/2 res playing 4K (6:1). I hope they come up with a new update soon.
 
L. Langer said:
It just doesn't work with the Mac Pro at this time and the internals of the monitor are not the same as what is in the 32-inch models. The 24-inch Dell has been out for a month and many people have confirmed it doesn't work. Even AnandTech tried it and got...nothing useful as using it in MST mode gives you something out of an acid trip and SST just gives you blah at 30hz. Cancel that order and pick up a 32-inch Sharp, Asus, or take your chances with the Dell equivalent. Those seem to be your only choices at this time until Apple finishes polishing OSX for 4K, which probably won't happen until the new crop of TB2 monitors hit the streets.
Click to expand...

Interesting… Since we now have a video linked just a few posts up that shows otherwise. Compounded with a PM I've also received from someone who has the Dell 24" along with a stock 6-core Mac Pro and it's working fine. They sent me a picture. I guess they can come forward publicly if they want. I'll know in a few days. My Dell 24" shipped this afternoon.

I need to look up Anandtech's write up on the monitor with the Mac and see what they say, but the couple reviews I've found where it didn't work left me with questions… Starting with me questioning their competence to choose the right cable or adapter. Depends who's doing the review for Anandtech. They often have some real morons, especially if it involves a Mac. I often get blasted for saying it, but there's plenty of times where Anandtech posts bogus info.

By the end of this week I'll have the Mac Pro, 24" Dell 4K, 18TB Pegasus2 R6 RAID and one other goodie I can't talk about just yet. ;)

L. Langer said:
Call the shipper and have them double-check the packaging and the weight. Otherwise, you may end up with a brick. Literally. It's happened a lot with Apple products lately.
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You're just full of good cheer today.

Isaac Marchionna said:
My status update went from "Preparing for Shipment" back to "Available to Ship in Feb"

Dear Apple, you're dicks!
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Mine did that twice last thursday and friday. I think you're close. :)
 
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