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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

New Lithium Battery Regulations

Power sources

Power sources

Hi, I'm new to this forum. I just want to know is RED BRICKS the only power solution for the RED One camera?
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No, any 12V - 17V D.C source can be used, but RED-BRICK is the definitely the BEST power source for a RED ONE camera...
 
The best source for the camera, yes. I think Red could pump out a smaller size if it was profitable.

So according to the info you can fly with two Red batteries, carry on, as long as they are attached to your camera. Do I have that right? (Within North America)
 
Batteries

Batteries

So according to the info you can fly with two Red batteries, carry on, as long as they are attached to your camera. Do I have that right? (Within North America)
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The regulations suggest that each passenger can fly with two RED BRICK 140Ah batteries - they do not have to be attached to the camera.
 
Thanks Stuart. I like that, "suggest" lol. I know what you mean though.
 
>>The regulations suggest <<

And therein lies the problem, especially here in the States.
As Leo said, the TSA is a government bureaucracy with many individuals. Some seem to be very dedicated and professional, some not so much. I'm sure some people working for the TSA use their position of power in a mildly abusive way.
All it takes is one vindictive or misinformed individual to really mess with your travel plans. They may have no real idea what the regulations are, but since they have the power to detain you and refuse passage, you could miss your flight. Perhaps you drove to the airport and can return your LiOn batteries to your car. Maybe you took a car service or perhaps you are on your return journey. What do you do with the batteries now?
Honestly, I have not had a problem yet. And lately I have taken to using my Hytron 140's on travel jobs.
But the trouble is that you never really know...
Cheers,
Harry
 
Stuart English said:
No, any 12V - 17V D.C source can be used, but RED-BRICK is the definitely the BEST power source for a RED ONE camera...
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I've been looking into solutions for the battery travel question....
For the record I would prefer to stick with RED Bricks but travel is a real problem for me so...

the following look like they might provide a solution:
http://www.idx-europe.co.uk/?p=products&id=ENDURA-ELITE

each removable cartridge is only 68Wh but they create a 136Wh battery. and IDX say they are outside the restrictions.
Does anyone know any reasons why these batteries would not work with the RED?

As I already have some RED Bricks does anyone know if there would be problems charging them on an IDX charger (those designed for their Endura batteries)?

They have a good pdf on their site which explains what the restrictions are:
http://www.idx-europe.co.uk/pdfs/other/IDX_transport_declaration.pdf

hope this is of help.
 
Litium Ion

Litium Ion

And that .pdf says in part -

"You can safely carry on-board a maximum of 2 spare batteries, provided that you take safety precautions and cover any exposed terminals with tape or put them in an insulated plastic bag. You can carry on-board 1 extra battery if it is physically installed or attached to your camera or equipment"

I think that there should be a " Plus" before "You can" i.e "Plus you can", but in any case its certainly two batteries.
 
Hi Stuart,

the regulation about 2 spares refers to batteries greater than 99Wh. The point about the IDX batteries I mentioned is that each cartridge is only 68Wh but the 'full' battery is 136Wh ie it has two cartridges. As IDX point out you simply remove one of the cartridges from the battery case for travel and re-insert at the other end.

You can carry-on any number of batteries less than 100Wh

this is another part of the pdf:
"Lithium Ion Batteries less than 100Wh
You can safely carry on-board an unlimited amount of spare batteries, provided that you take safety precautions and cover any exposed terminals with tape or put them in an insulated plastic bag."

at the end of the day we all simply need to be able to work and for me being limited to a maximum of 3 batteries is not workable. sometimes I am away from power for 2 or three days.

peter
 
If I read it correctly, according to this website, http://safetravel.dot.gov/whats_new_batteries.html


1) EDITED You can check-in one RED brick (since they are under 25 grams of lithium) as long as it is attached to a device - camera. It is not clear if it is enough to attach it to a charger.

2) You may NOT check-in any spares!

3) You can bring two spare RED bricks with covered connectors as carry on.


I wonder how does TSA determine amount of lithium in a battery, such a RED brick? ;-)
 
So that no one is under any misapprehensions,
this is quoted from the above mentioned site:

Effective January 1, 2008, you may not pack spare lithium batteries in your checked baggage.

to me this makes it clear that the only way you can carry batteries is 'carry on'.

Elsewhere on the site it states
"Larger" lithium ion batteries are rated between 100 and 300 watt-hours...

You are allowed one larger lithium ion battery installed in a device, plus up to 2 spare larger lithium ion batteries. These are in addition to any smaller lithium ion batteries. For smaller lithium ion batteries, just follow the Basic rules.

Batteries less than 100Wh are classed as 'smaller' so you can carry-on (theoretically) any number. Of course there will be a point where the weight of what you are trying to carry on will become an issue.
I always want to carry the camera, the lens (haven't been able to get 2 lenses in when travelling alone) and a computer, and now as many batteries as I can - these 4 items are minimum just to work at all. But guess how much that lot weighs. I was once refused a carry on bag because it weighed 8Kg that took a lot of talking to get around - I think I was lucky.
 
Pawel Achtel said:
That's the reason why I drive everywhere :tt2:
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In principle, I agree, but it adds so much time if driving to Eastern Europe.

I can and need to research all of this, but is there a general rule of thumb for international travel or do regulations vary with different airline/countries?
 
Good Info from SteadyCam forum

Good Info from SteadyCam forum

http://www.steadicamforum.com/index.php?showtopic=7221

Lithium ion is the only battery that has a flammable electrolyte, hence the main concern for safety. The issue lies in ALL li ion batteries, however, Anton/Bauer does get approval for our safety circuits and pcb's directly from the cell manufacturer. Most other companies do not have that approval. This means that our cell manufacturer will back us up in the unlikely event that something happens. The cell manfacturers would just wash their hands for companies that do not have approved circuits.

Also, here is something to remember. A Dionic 90, and most batteries around the 100wh range, have a total of 12 cells in them. 3 sets of 4 cells. The 3 sets in parallel is what gives you the extended run-time. A 130wh, or so, battery is 4 sets in parallel. A 150/160wh is 5 sets, etc. Well, NO cell manfacturer recommends that you put more than 3 sets in parallel because it is so hard to monitor each pack. The more packs you have, the greater the risk for bad monitoring. And, with lithium ion, since each cell is 3.6v, if one cell dies, your whole battery is dead. So, the more cells you put into the battery, the greater the risk of having a bad cell that will render your whole cell pack useless.

Now comes another fun part. If you have all of these cells in a pack, all it takes is one to short and vent, which again, venting is essentially a flammabe electrolyte. One cell vents, gets hot, catches fire, which in turn catches the next cell, etc......Now you have more cells in a package to get hotter and have a potential of causing more damage.

Our Dionic 160 is totally different from any other battery out there. We use a special military spec cell that is rated for high currents, which is why ours costs more money. However, the life span will be a lot longer than the others and there are only 2 cell packs of 4 cells (8 cells total) in this battery.

Bottom line; you asked "are HyTRON's (NiMH) safer than Dionic's (li ioin)".............YES! And, yes, it is LITHIUM ION chemistry that is the issue......

I hope this helps and sheds some light....

Paul
Click to expand...
 
Anton/Bauer does get approval for our safety circuits and pcb's directly from the cell manufacturer
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Does Red do the same thing with their batteries?



As for trying to find out different way to get the batteries on the planes. Just imagine if you were on your way somewhere, just getting settled in for a little shut eye when the shit storm happenned. A battery that someone had snuck on caught fire. I know I would be thinking, "If I every get my hands on that guy :boxing:.".


Best advice, "Have a copy of the rules with you and do it right.".
 
Timely topic as I was supposed to fly for a shoot the other day and needed to bring 4 RED bricks with me but knew the restrictions would not allow it. So if I'm hearing everyone correctly and understand the TSA literature, I can get 2 in one of my carry ons which I would have contacts taped up and I could potentially attach 1 more to my RED charger in my other carry-on. I could work with 3 batteries as long as there's AC power at the shoot. If not, then I would elect to rent batteries from a local vendor wherever I'm going.

I have no interest in causing a safety risk for the airlines, they already have enough problems as it is. I just want the rules to be clear and very specific.
 
Well, seeing that the bricks don't get attached directly to the camera, that is interesting. I suppose I can attach it to the battery belt plate which is technically how I power the camera.

Seems like a lot of grey area here.
 
If you can ship it ground ahead of time

If you can ship it ground ahead of time

Brent@RED said:
Please note that as of January 1, 2009, lithium ion batteries over 100Wh are classified as Class 9 Dangerous Goods. RED BRICK batteries are 140Wh and therefore fall into this category. RED must comply with the applicable US domestic and international rules and regulations pertaining to documentation, shipping, and handling procedures. Since there is a Dangerous Goods surcharge for lithium ion batteries added onto the normal cost of shipping, RED will be adding a RED BRICK shipping and handling surcharge on orders including RED BRICKS.

In addition, some countries will not accept any Dangerous Goods shipments with FedEx as the carrier (see http://fedex.com/us/dangerousgoods/ for country list). For these countries, RED will have to engage the services of a different class of shipper (eg, a freight forwarder). If RED cannot use FedEx, please note that there will be increased shipping and handling charges as well as additional processing time to arrange for alternate shipping options.

Unless you have been certified to ship dangerous goods, you must work with a Dangerous Goods, Class 9-certified shipper to assist you with a shipment that includes RED BRICKS (or other regulated lithium ion batteries). Please note that applicable laws prohibit the shipping of batteries that are physically damaged. We urge you to look into the formal rules and regulations of shipping Class 9 Dangerous Goods prior to preparing your shipment. For more information on these regulations, please visit www.iata.org and www.dot.gov .

If you are going to be traveling with your RED BRICKS (or any lithium batteries), please see http://safetravel.dot.gov/larger_batt.html for rules and regulations. As of this post, you do have the ability to carry on BRICKS onto a commercial flight - with limitations, of course.

Again, RED takes these regulations very seriously. We ask you to NEVER ship a RED BRICK back to RED without complying with the same rules and regulations. RMA'ed BRICKS returned to RED without proper steps taken to ensure compliance will NOT be evaluated by RED and may not be returned to the customer. Safety is one of our very top priorities and we hope that you will work with us in this matter.

Thanks and let us know if you have any questions. We will answer what we can - but I highly recommend that you check out the links in this post for yourself to really see how this affects you.

As more information becomes available, I will post on this thread.

RED BOMB SQUAD
www.red.com/contact_us
949.206.7900
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Just to clarify, I know that I don't need any special paper work to send the batteries back via ground because they are governed under different regulations not iata. In that case would Red reject my RMA batteries?
 
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