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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

New "Game Changer" Movi Handheld Stabilizer

well hehe , I didnt call it my self as a game changer, I know very well what can or cant be done with this, and I also have many ideas around it, Iam mostly interested in the sensor tech.
To me its just a 3 axis gyrostabilised head , like many out there, with more sofisticated motors and sensors, and handles. Other than that its not anything really new, and to prove that I will try and search for a hand held set up I did back in 1998 I think, using my Blimp gyrostabilizeds small head to do just that, with a slightly different configuration axis concept.
thats all there is to it.
all the rest of cource is promotional stuff, and why not? those guys do try hard to maker a better tool and progress so Iam all with this.
However many voices here always get very exited when they look at something different, but for example there are about 10 different octacopter forums , that would not go woaow just looking at it, purelly cause this kinda design concept has been around for like what 2-3 years? maybe more. Its the sensors and motors that are changing making it a better tool.
and just the additional handle. It could be very well used in crane, cablecam, car mount, boat mount, and of cource aerial which was the main concept. Just a gyrostabilized head, on the cheap of big brothers and of cource on the cheap of stabilization quality as well.
Lets pull a 200 or even a 400mm lens for example and see the footage. Still at a fraction of the cost of cineflex...so lets not compare apples with oranges.
getting better? sure. Replacing steadicam? no. Doing some great special moves? sure it can.
regards
 
I see that the hobbyist people who fly radio controlled aircraft have been the pioneering source of the development for this type of gyro.

Demo of a low cost 2 axis system:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-UOXMT2y0M

The board they are commonly using ( $50 USD ):
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Gimbal-Brus...335?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f23cb89f7

They rewind common brushless RC motors for the axis drives.
It will only be time before others migrate similar looking parts to larger and or cheaper versions for 'big' cameras.

Exciting times !
 
:banghead::out:
David Kellermann said:
If you're interested in testing those kind of gimbals, have a look at this thread. Most current projects are posted there.

This one is supposed to be released soon.
Click to expand...
David what have you done, you have oper the Pandoras box, the Stargate, hahahaha:emote_22_yikes:
well haha now you gonna have people reading 177 pages of evolution in rc sensor boards and test motors . But thats what proves what I have been sayin.
And I also bet many will come and say, oh lets do a group buy of .... a kit set, and then some guy with out any canera experience nor Epic or Scarlet user will jamp in and say, oh I have a chinese company that will make this for you for 100 bucks, lets do a group buy, and then another 1000 people will buy this and try and make it work lol.
kidding of cource but its always possible, isnt it David? you know what I mean yes? hahahahaha
 
Cüneyt Kaya said:
how loud is that thing? is redording dialogue possible?
Click to expand...

usually DDR direct drive mnotors are very quiet. more quiet that lens motors. They dont use gear boxes and they usually cost a furtune.
 
Great innovation.

It definitely cannot fully replace a steadycam but it has great potential nevertheless. The 20lb version makes little sense and Easyrig addition defeats the purpose of flying this thing properly, so this is pretty much the solution for minimal setups and specific shots. But a great tool still. Best of luck to the team behind it and hats off.
 
this will definatly be the next DIY toy for the indie guys..

remember how lens adapters like letus and red rock were all the DIY rage back in the day?

I see this as the next big thing..

SIMPLE..

these gimbals are getting cheap.. you can pretty much build a decent octocopter for less than 5k...

take away the helicopter part.. use the gimbal on remote control.. build a handheld rig for it..

DONE
 
Not to piss on this parade but a gimbal is just a gimbal.

You are not removing or avoiding anything else than pan/tilt/roll shakes. The actual position of the camera is not damped or stabilized in any way. It's of course a really cool thing but it's not like you can grab it and run around and expect perfectly smooth camera moves, to get that you also need the XYZ position to be smooth and stable.

So if you putt on a easy rig and run will have problems as you then transfer your whole body movment into the camera position, so to get that to work you need to put on your roller blades or such.

But those small gimbals are very good for building wire cams or shooting from cars and such where the movement of the camera is somewhat stable but it does not replace steady cams, dollies and cranes or such as it just stabs the aim of the camera.

The pan tilt roll shakes is actually something that for the most part can be taken out in post but what's critical is the XYZ stuff and that's harder to get around.

But it's great that the small lightweight RC kopter gyros keeps making progress. As the quality for these things goes straight up and the prices goes in the opposite direction I think it will only take a couple of years before we can by really good gyro heads for about the same price as RC toys. It's basically the same controllers and motors and the chip that control it all runs on a share ware and does not cost much to make.
 
First off...
looks like an interesting special shot oriented tool.. We have seen special purpose tools since the dawn of film making (anyone seen a gravity activated gimbal tripod besides me?.. they made them with a full size Mitchell plate and wooden sticks in the 1940s.. and they worked pretty well to stabilize boat shots) and will see them again.

Secondly.. Any Epic/Scarlet operators out there: Build your camera up in its lightest shootable configuration, and hold it at eye lever for 180 seconds. I dare you. That'll separate the athletes from the herd! I bet the steadicam operators amongst you survive that challenge the best.
This device will add weight to that configuration. Most people will find that operating position very painful and difficult. It is tougher than shoulder braced hand held.

the second operator thing is not a deal killer to me.. after all a steadicam requires a focus puller, and should also have a safety man in the train..

Easyrig negates many of the camera move oportunities that this thing WILL allow.

And.. does every movie really have a story point that will be enhanced by this device? Maybe.. maybe not.

If I owned a rental house, I'd buy two of these. As a producer... I'll rent.
 
Björn Benckert said:
Not to piss on this parade but a gimbal is just a gimbal.

You are not removing or avoiding anything else than pan/tilt/roll shakes. The actual position of the camera is not damped or stabilized in any way. It's of course a really cool thing but it's not like you can grab it and run around and expect perfectly smooth camera moves, to get that you also need the XYZ position to be smooth and stable.

So if you putt on a easy rig and run will have problems as you then transfer your whole body movment into the camera position, so to get that to work you need to put on your roller blades or such.

But those small gimbals are very good for building wire cams or shooting from cars and such where the movement of the camera is somewhat stable but it does not replace steady cams, dollies and cranes or such as it just stabs the aim of the camera.

The pan tilt roll shakes is actually something that for the most part can be taken out in post but what's critical is the XYZ stuff and that's harder to get around.

But it's great that the small lightweight RC kopter gyros keeps making progress. As the quality for these things goes straight up and the prices goes in the opposite direction I think it will only take a couple of years before we can by really good gyro heads for about the same price as RC toys. It's basically the same controllers and motors and the chip that control it all runs on a share ware and does not cost much to make.
Click to expand...

That's not completely accurate, if you look at this video https://vimeo.com/63297368 you see there is some 'chicken head' x and (to a lesser extent I think) z boom in the device, so it dampens some of the irregularities of human movement. I am guessing this small amount works very well with the skill you can build up as an operator.

When you watch the movie you see there is some side to side movement when they really start shuffling on foot, but because that horizon is glued down by the device, that's actually forgivable and even desirable for certain things IMO. I personally think it's a nice amalgam of handheld and Steadicam, verging on Steadicam for slow moments.
The side-to-side isn't so bad for motion blur. Anyway past a certain threshold (i.e. beyond the stability of a Steadicam IMO) stabilising footage makes for distracting motion blur artifacts (i.e. blurring composed over still picture elements)

One big take-away for me is that maintaining the horizon line has a massive effect on the viewer impression of stability (much more than lateral stability). And this is hard to do manually. I guess this is because our brains are 'auto leveling' our view as we move (kind of like how footsteps are 'edited out' subliminally from our view). This footage is the closest I have seen to the feeling of being inside the perspective of a person. There's also a mode for reintroducing some of the displacement of the operator into the horizon axis (called 'shaky cam' on their website). This will be important I think because the level of horizonal accuracy is almost spooky (in a great omniscient narrator way!) and not always appropriate for the scene.

Also very excited about the single user mode 'majestic'.

The future of this tech is expansive. Think about putting an electronic marker on the actor so it automatically follows them, or using an Occulus Rift to drive the camera pans! Perhaps just a headband accelerometer. I hope Freefly Cinema provide an SDK with this thing because if they do I will go on a coding frenzy.

For anyone who hasn't paid the 3 dollars for the 1080p 'extra features' I highly recommend it: there's some footage in there that shows even more of the potential of this device. And the money is going to a charity.
 
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Brett Harrison said:
That's not completely accurate, if you look at this video https://vimeo.com/63297368 you see there is some 'chicken head' x and (to a lesser extent I think) z boom in the device, so it dampens some of the irregularities of human movement. I am guessing this small amount works very well with the skill you can build up as an operator.

When you watch the movie you see there is some side to side movement when they really start shuffling on foot, but because that horizon is glued down by the device, that's actually forgivable and even desirable for certain things IMO. I personally think it's a nice amalgam of handheld and Steadicam, verging on Steadicam for slow moments.
The side-to-side isn't so bad for motion blur. Anyway past a certain threshold (i.e. beyond the stability of a Steadicam IMO) stabilising footage makes for distracting motion blur artifacts (i.e. blurring composed over still picture elements)

One big take-away for me is that maintaining the horizon line has a massive effect on the viewer impression of stability (much more than lateral stability). And this is hard to do manually. I guess this is because our brains are 'auto leveling' our view as we move (kind of like how footsteps are 'edited out' subliminally from our view). This footage is the closest I have seen to the feeling of being inside the perspective of a person. There's also a mode for reintroducing some of the displacement of the operator into the horizon axis (called 'shaky cam' on their website). This will be important I think because the level of horizonal accuracy is almost spooky (in a great omniscient narrator way!) and not always appropriate for the scene.

Also very excited about the single user mode 'majestic'.

The future of this tech is expansive. Think about putting an electronic marker on the actor so it automatically follows them, or using an Occulus Rift to drive the camera pans! Perhaps just a headband accelerometer. I hope Freefly Cinema provide an SDK with this thing because if they do I will go on a coding frenzy.

For anyone who hasn't paid the 3 dollars for the 1080p 'extra features' I highly recommend it: there's some footage in there that shows even more of the potential of this device. And the money is going to a charity.
Click to expand...

I looked a few times more on the video and I only see pan,tilt, roll. But maybe I'm mistaken.
 
Björn Benckert said:
I looked a few times more on the video and I only see pan,tilt, roll. But maybe I'm mistaken.
Click to expand...

Right you are, my mistake. When he was rolling the control around it gave me the impression of some booming range but he was just carefully pivoting around the camera's position. The footage is surprisingly stable considering this. Must be down to good operating.

edit: frame-stepping the footage I think there might little bit of dampening programmed in. Obviously the threshold for that is pretty marginal.
 
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ok Iam just gonna clarify a few things I hear here on this thread. Pan tilt roll it is but with sensors working to keep this in horizon, thats a gyrostabilized head. its not just pan tilt roll.
There are many pan tilt roll heads out there that are not gyrostabilized so if you can grab them and have the power to lift them they will not react in your motion rotation body errors. That one does.
Secondly, there is no spring or any other device that takes care of the up and down moves, its just your arm that react in gravity. And your arm does react in gravity, and the more the weight the more it reacts, to gether with your brain can keep this in a reasonable good level, not perfect but ok. try and do it your self. Get a 5 kgr weight on your arm hold it in front of you with one arm and start jumping up and down. The jumps are way bigger than the ups and doewns of your arm.
Eventually cineflex and other expensive gyrostabilized devices have 5 axis(degrees of freedom) and also they have antivibration mounts to cut separate vibrations from the head and camera. Those guys also use this method in miniature, when on heli or octas.Not needed or would acvtually do anything to your very low frequency vibrations while running.
The horizon accurancy now. Its way better than any other small gyrostabilized head I have seen, but sorry to say its not as Brett says locked , I can see it in a few shoots it has lost the horizon level, and dont forget that we also dont see the complete footage here.
The best way to prove that is by a complete shot test just for this, however the flows are present, not big but still there.
Last about its price. Go ahead and call some companies that make medioum quality for expence IMU sensors and also call some companies that make DDRs (direct drive motors) , you will discover that each motor will be in the range of 600-1000 usd, and in those motors sometimes small size is as expensive as bigger size. So what Iam trying to say is that if you get a more sofisticated IMU for 3 axis , and not rc gyros or rc gyroboards, and you also get DDrs that can very well be as much as 3-5k
As I said the frame is nothing really special just tubes in a usual configuration so thats cheap those days.
Ove all, I think this is what it its, and its made better rthan other devices I have seen for this use, (still waiting for that tests and footage from the other company recently came on this forum ) and those guys spended a fair amount of R&D for this, something you guys dont think of it at all, since you just buy things of tyhe self most of the time. R&D costs money and time, and 15k maybe expensive for now days for something like this but it can very well justified for what it is.
And that is if everything said from the company is trooth and they have produced their own motors and gyrosensors and software tuning.
So dont be s hard on this guys, its a tough barrier to be break, and they made a good and respectable attempt to go over this barrier and I think in some points they also made it.
Promotional words? yes of cource and why not? you get it on your tv everyday.
And of cource you can make your own, 100s of rc users have made things like this for different loads, some work pretty well some suck big time, so its up to your craftsmanship and your knowledge in putting together sensor boards, motors abd design around it, or just get a kit.
A kit will not work as expected all the time, 3 of the same kit can performe better or worst one from the other. Thas because its takes some tuning and other methods and kmnowledge that when you arent aware off you do mistakes.
I think we should let those guys come up with their innovations and show as what they can come up to to make this even better that it is already.
best regards
 
constantine Tirintzis said:
ok Iam just gonna clarify a few things I hear here on this thread. Pan tilt roll it is but with sensors working to keep this in horizon, thats a gyrostabilized head. its not just pan tilt roll.
There are many pan tilt roll heads out there that are not gyrostabilized so if you can grab them and have the power to lift them they will not react in your motion rotation body errors. That one does.
Secondly, there is no spring or any other device that takes care of the up and down moves, its just your arm that react in gravity. And your arm does react in gravity, and the more the weight the more it reacts, to gether with your brain can keep this in a reasonable good level, not perfect but ok. try and do it your self. Get a 5 kgr weight on your arm hold it in front of you with one arm and start jumping up and down. The jumps are way bigger than the ups and doewns of your arm.
Eventually cineflex and other expensive gyrostabilized devices have 5 axis(degrees of freedom) and also they have antivibration mounts to cut separate vibrations from the head and camera. Those guys also use this method in miniature, when on heli or octas.Not needed or would acvtually do anything to your very low frequency vibrations while running.
The horizon accurancy now. Its way better than any other small gyrostabilized head I have seen, but sorry to say its not as Brett says locked , I can see it in a few shoots it has lost the horizon level, and dont forget that we also dont see the complete footage here.
The best way to prove that is by a complete shot test just for this, however the flows are present, not big but still there.
Last about its price. Go ahead and call some companies that make medioum quality for expence IMU sensors and also call some companies that make DDRs (direct drive motors) , you will discover that each motor will be in the range of 600-1000 usd, and in those motors sometimes small size is as expensive as bigger size. So what Iam trying to say is that if you get a more sofisticated IMU for 3 axis , and not rc gyros or rc gyroboards, and you also get DDrs that can very well be as much as 3-5k
As I said the frame is nothing really special just tubes in a usual configuration so thats cheap those days.
Ove all, I think this is what it its, and its made better rthan other devices I have seen for this use, (still waiting for that tests and footage from the other company recently came on this forum ) and those guys spended a fair amount of R&D for this, something you guys dont think of it at all, since you just buy things of tyhe self most of the time. R&D costs money and time, and 15k maybe expensive for now days for something like this but it can very well justified for what it is.
And that is if everything said from the company is trooth and they have produced their own motors and gyrosensors and software tuning.
So dont be s hard on this guys, its a tough barrier to be break, and they made a good and respectable attempt to go over this barrier and I think in some points they also made it.
Promotional words? yes of cource and why not? you get it on your tv everyday.
And of cource you can make your own, 100s of rc users have made things like this for different loads, some work pretty well some suck big time, so its up to your craftsmanship and your knowledge in putting together sensor boards, motors abd design around it, or just get a kit.
A kit will not work as expected all the time, 3 of the same kit can performe better or worst one from the other. Thas because its takes some tuning and other methods and kmnowledge that when you arent aware off you do mistakes.
I think we should let those guys come up with their innovations and show as what they can come up to to make this even better that it is already.
best regards
Click to expand...

I don't mean it's locked in a mathematical sense, just that the leveling is really really good. If you look at the special features DVD (for $3) you will see that even more. You might have to do an extra take sometimes - personally the flows don't bother me.
 
thats what I ment also. However the flows do bother me, and thats what Iam trying to find out how to get rid of them. All the rest doesnt interest me as a) its not an innovation that it hasnt been around for ages b) it can be made again and again with various ways.
sorroy for the missunderstanding. When I was operating steadicam when my horizon was off with out intetion, the directors would ask for another take. Thats production time and money.
And if you take this on aerial that can be dissasterous in expense if the footage is not as expected. So if we are talking about a device that can make a little better moves that its recently older brothers and stays there , thats not good enogh for me.
And Iam not looking at the expense either.
I think I was pretty fair and clear. As a hheld device I see nothing there more than a special shot requirement, where a setadicam crane or other device cannot get, because of the nature of the shot. But you will compromise many things.
thats all there is to it for me.And if they can take it to the next level , make a gyrohead that can really perform like the big brotheres , that cost a few 100s of thousand of $$$ then thats what Iam seeking into.
Sorry I cant go woah when I see this. I use to have a rc gyrostabilised head back in 1998 with the present futaba gyro technology and similar methods , modified servos to work with out stops and perform like gear motors. Nothing change from then apart of the electronics sensors and motors.
So its not a new thing, or a game changes, or anything else in my eyes, but I still get exited when I see people try to innovate.
thanks
 
@constantine : rc guys are rewinding cheap brushless motors to use for this application. These Chinese motors are less than $60 usd.
no need for expensive stuff here.

Ill be interested in doing a DIY version as well.

These gyros only stabilize 3 out of 6 axis . The missing 3 axis are the ones that cause perspective shifts that can't be stabilized out via software . A usefull device none the less.
 
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