New Fast Prime Set WOW

[Jannard]

Hey guys... how about we stop badgering Michael to tell us where and by whom these lenses are made. We'll all get to find out when he is good and ready to tell us. The image circle coverage is probably not a secret however. Am I wrong in thinking they will cover all of 30x15mm? I hope so... good for our customers.

Now, if you would just call them the "phantom lenses" for now. Oh... that's taken , too.

Jim

 

[Michael Bravin]

Thanks Jim

I PROMISE that on Feb 15th, or as soon as we can, we will share the balance of the information.

Last thing we want is to have to constantly address the Sherlock Holmes Society instead of workin out kinks, I'm sure you know of what I speak.:willy_nilly:

In the meantime, let's put one of these "Future Primes" on an Epic and see what we see. It should cover just right.

M

 

[Michael Bravin]

If Dr. Kaufmann owes all those percentages in Leica Camera AG and also rights with Leica brand name why not simply titled the new lenses LEICA PL LENSES.

I clearly wrote that Leica Camera AG was not manufacturing these lenses, doesn't that make sense to everyone?

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

Sorry Michael,

it was clear to me from the beginning but then happened that I was again thinking so loud about the same thing and it was online and sometimes this bad thing can happen... and of course it was a mistake.

 

[Rich Schaefer]

let's put one of these "Future Primes" on an Epic and see what we see. It should cover just right.

M

I would like to see that! Can I invite myself?

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

When I refer to Full Aperture 35mm it is .980 x .735

For those wondering, that translates to 24.89mm x 18.67mm or "full aperture" of S35.

In the meantime, let's put one of these "Future Primes" on an Epic and see what we see. It should cover just right.

Can't wait to see what they can do! Including what their actual coverage / image circle will be. The Mysterium-X S35 sensor is 30x15mm and it has been said it has the same photosite dimensions as the current Mysterium Sensor. So assuming that 5K is 5120x2560, that would mean an area of 27.65mm x 13.83 and a 31mm image circle to cover it.

These primes are very interesting, I'm anxious to know more.

 

[Mark L. Pederson]

They will begin to deliver in summer 2010, not end not beginning, IN summer [

Michael -

Will / can you deliver more than the initial order made by Otto Nemenz in "summer 2010"?

 

[Roberto Lequeux]

Roberto,

you know from long before that Federico Fellini is my favorite movie director...

I hope my Grandfather being born in the same place (Rimini, Italy) gives me a little of his magic.

BTW, I am dissapointed in you for not plastering that photo embedded at full 4k on this thread. If you were ever going to go all out again this would be the place. Thumbnails are for iPhone whiners. he he he...
(I am j/k, please don't do that now or I might get in trouble)

When I refer to Full Aperture 35mm it is .980 x .735

For those wondering, that translates to 24.89mm x 18.67mm or "full aperture" of S35.

Can't wait to see what they can do! Including what their actual coverage / image circle will be. The Mysterium-X S35 sensor is 30x15mm and it has been said it has the same photosite dimensions as the current Mysterium Sensor. So assuming that 5K is 5120x2560, that would mean an area of 27.65mm x 13.83 and a 31mm image circle to cover it.

Thank you Michael and Jeff.

Is RED FF35 coverage out of the question?

In the meantime, let's put one of these "Future Primes" on an Epic and see what we see. It should cover just right

PHL3AZE!!! :drooling:

Unless Jim has bigger plans for his FF35 electronic optics... hmmm...

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

So, is RED FF35 coverage out of the question?

I guess we wait to see the final specifications. But FF35 coverage requires a 44mm image circle for total coverage.

 

[Roberto Lequeux]

I guess we wait to see the final specifications. But FF35 coverage requires a 44mm image circle for total coverage.

So far from likely I guess. :disappointed:

Since many are labeling the 12mm, 16mm and other wides as "physically impossible" (for FF35)... what can we safely assume from that deal?

All I know is that the "double aespherical" mojo makes insanely small lenses with full frame coverage... (right?)

Can we expect any of these to cover Epic FF35, or not?

 

[Michael Bravin]

Michael -

Will / can you deliver more than the initial order made by Otto Nemenz in "summer 2010"?

Yep

 

[Michael Bravin]

Can we expect any of these to cover Epic FF35, or not?

Nope not made to cover FF35 made for coverage on 35mm Motion Picture formats. FF35mm cameras are more like Vista Vision...no?

 

[Pawel Achtel]

When I refer to Full Aperture 35mm it is .980 x .735

OK, so the image circle is 31.11mm. Slightly less than 33.5 needed to cover 30mm x 15mm frame.

By 4K and beyond, I refer to the MTF performance/resolution/even illumination, designed for 4K resolution sensors and future higher pixel resolution sensors on Cine Cameras.

OK, let's be specific, so what is the MTF at 4k (about 85 lp/mm) measured in the centre with green light?
Or, what is the MTF at 50 lp/mm?

 

[Jacek Zakowicz]

sit down, Pavel

sit down, Pavel

From what I heard you don't want to be standing up when you see this, you may hurt yourself falling over fainted.....

 

[Pawel Achtel]

From what I heard you don't want to be standing up when you see this, you may hurt yourself falling over fainted.....

haha. Nice one! I'm sitting comfortably ready to take the nicest surprise imaginable. LOL

I've seen some stunning images coming from Leica glass, so wouldn't be surprised if they are sharper and higher contrast than Zeiss master glass.

Either way, sounds intriguing and exciting.

 

[Roberto Lequeux]

Nope not made to cover FF35 made for coverage on 35mm Motion Picture formats. FF35mm cameras are more like Vista Vision...no?

Yes. I just wanted to have it made completely clear by someone else, so I didn't fudge it up.

Personally I keep waiting for the FF35 holy grail to happen. All in anticipation of what that would allow with FF35 Epics.

I don't want to go around on cloud 9 when I should be a little lower. The size and weight is fantastic, with the optical quality expected but to be clear:

These are slated to be S35, super compact+light, super speed, super optical quality primes, "priced below the current MP and S4 pricing and above current UltraPrime pricing". Correct?

If so, I guess I can go back to waiting for the RED FF35 electronic lenses. Obviously these will be king if they look like Leicas! But that coupled with the size and weight is only a BIG step forward, and not a monumental leap for filmmaking, such as what perfect FF35 glass on a camera that allows you to select your sensor area would be. :willy_nilly:

 

[Michael Bravin]

OK, so the image circle is 31.11mm. Slightly less than 33.5 needed to cover 30mm x 15mm frame.



OK, let's be specific, so what is the MTF at 4k (about 85 lp/mm) measured in the centre with green light?
Or, what is the MTF at 50 lp/mm?

I wrote that they are designed to cover full aperture 35.

I did not write that the image circle that the lenses project is 31.11mm

Geez what's a guy gotta do to keep things straight around here.

While we have actively gathered this data as part of the design process we will probably not be providing MTF data at 85 lp/mm or 50 lp/mm in the near future, if ever.

What would one do with this data?

 

[Roberto Lequeux]

I wrote that they are designed to cover full aperture 35.

I did not write that the image circle that the lenses project is 31.11mm

Geez what's a guy gotta do to keep things straight around here.

While we have actively gathered this data as part of the design process we will probably not be providing MTF data at 85 lp/mm or 50 lp/mm in the near future, if ever.

What would one do with this data?

I would guess that it is the only way for people to approximate quantifying the sharpness of a lens.

I wonder why you don't seem to like that people are asking a million questions? I thank you for all the info you have shared so far, but just as a humble 0.02 from my non-marketing-major self to you:
When you "forum tease marketing" you need to accept what you are committing to. Look at what Jim has had to endure. It isn't supposed to be easy, and there is no manual for it, other than Recon perhaps. Personally I wouldn't complain. Read Jim's (and Jarred's) posts. This sort of strategy has great potential, but requires other things that "normal" marketing doesn't. One of the main skills necessary might be patience, and the ability to say a lot with silence. Just a few humble words.

Please don't be discouraged from this strategy, it is the future.

 

[Pawel Achtel]

I did not write that the image circle that the lenses project is 31.11mm

Geez what's a guy gotta do to keep things straight around here.

24.89mm x 18.67mm gives 31.11mm circle. Simple maths. :biggrin:

While we have actively gathered this data as part of the design process we will probably not be providing MTF data at 85 lp/mm or 50 lp/mm in the near future, if ever.

What would one do with this data?

The MTF tells me something about the lens performance. It is a common way to measure and compare lenses. "4k and beyond" tells me absolutely nothing and is completely meaningless mumbo-jumbo (sorry Michael). :biggrin: In absence of the actual glass in my hands, I could readily and not subjectively compare the MTF to other lenses that I'm familiar with. Of course, the alternative is that you send a couple samples down here and I will be on my way to the nearest projector in no time ...:biggrin:

 

[Michael Bravin]

I would guess that it is the only way for people to approximate quantifying the sharpness of a lens.

I wonder why you don't seem to like that people are asking a million questions? I thank you for all the info you have shared so far, but just as a humble 0.02 from my non-marketing-major self to you:
When you "forum tease marketing" you need to accept what you are committing to. Look at what Jim has had to endure. It isn't supposed to be easy, and there is no manual for it, other than Recon perhaps. Personally I wouldn't complain. Read Jim's (and Jarred's) posts. This sort of strategy has great potential, but requires other things that "normal" marketing doesn't. One of the main skills necessary might be patience, and the ability to say a lot with silence. Just a few humble words.

Please don't be discouraged from this strategy, it is the future.

I can handle the questions, ive been doing this for a long time.

I have a hard time with 1+1=63

Understanding MTF and asking for the relative numbers are 2 different things. I seriously doubt whether anyone asking such questions here can evaluate the relative sharpness of a camera-lens system knowing the lens MTF on center with Green light. Aside from the obvious, MTF of a system is multiplicative so if the lens is 90% and the rest of the system is 50% the system is 45% so the lens MTF becomes almost irrelevant.

While I really just posted originally to provide accurate info from the source before the 1+1=63 buzz started I do see how this is perceived as forum marketing.

So of course I mostly kid when I seem stern. Those who know me know this well.

Doesn't mean its still not weird.