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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

new Epic render...

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Looking really good. Super nice work. I've greatly appreciated the opportunity you guys have provided to weigh in on features we desire. Thanks!!

As I consider how I'll use the cam, I'm thinking that I'll probably want to put essential and/or extremely common add-ons (ie. batteries and perhaps the hard drive or flash drive) somewhere on the back of the camera.

Is there a way to facilitate these without having to use a top mount bar system (or longer lower bars--as they would wreck the shoulder cut out)?

I'm thinking something more integral to the camera, perhaps a module that attaches onto the back of the camera body (assuming here that the back controls are removable; if I've read previous posts correctly, I think they are--very cool), doing a better job upholding the ergonomic vision evident in this last batch of renders than a top mount bar system would accomplish.

Again--NICE. I love how small the camera to begin with, and how the handhold option and cable routing is coming together.

p
 
I definitely enjoy watching this camera evolve, just like the R1. Any chance of seeing the control module on the back mounted on the side of the camera soon?
 
The Renders are scary good ;-0

probably already been asked and answered, but here goes...(if the info can be shared) what is the modeling and rendering environment used?
 
The breakout box is a tremendous improvement, I dig it. I still fear that the rear connectors [Power, Drive, TC, Aux] on the BOB will be in danger by sticking out of the back of the body, but that's the nature of the shortened body itself.

With the rear control surface removed, I'd love to see some 3/8-16 holes back there to semi-permanently attach something in its stead... a big accessory with a drive slot or two and a battery mount [similar to the drawings Matt Uhry posted in this post. You guys don't have to make the accessory, but making a bracket back there to mount stuff onto would be awesome.

That would eliminate the need for the top rod system to mount necessary accessories like the drive, battery, etc. Rather than adding several pounds worth of [sometimes over-adjustable] accessories to the top, there could be one fixed accessory on the back that would turn the weight and balance of this camera into that of a film camera. To make this work properly, there should be an interface connection/charge port on the smart side of the camera where many people will chose to semi-permanently mount it.

What's in the riser block between the sliding base plate and the main body of the camera? Are there brains in there or is that a block that could be made removable [by having those brains shifted elsewhere in the body... even if it meant lengthening it by an inch]? Having the optical axis unnecessarily low [to less than 80mm... so that video rods could clear the bottom] would open huge doors for accessorizing and building the most badass handheld rig ever. I'm talking crazy low... lower than any film camera. If that block disappeared and was redistributed elsewhere, it would make an enormous difference [and would solve the only ergonomic point that couldn't be solved with an accessory].

For studio configurations, a riser block would go in between the camera body and the sliding base plate.

Is that red switch I see on the back a lock switch for the controls?

Any chance of a few more accessory ports? Front-facing? With higher amperages available [multiple amps... torquey lens motors love power]? You could put one right under the RS-232 port on the BOB and space those connectors a little more evenly.

You guys should give some serious thought to Matt Uhry's recommendation to turn the audio interface into a breakout snake cable... perhaps into something similar [or identical] to a Neutricon SC8/MC8 interface.

By reducing the sound package on the camera to one low-profile port, we could make accessory decisions based on our requirements. The ENG/EFP crowd could have a BOB with XLRs and pots. The cinema crowd could just have the mixer plug his own custom Neutricon[ish] cable into the camera which would carry 2 channels of audio, audio output and timecode input. Those with more requirements could build their own adventure. The best part is that you guys wouldn't even have to build those accessories.

I'd say make a ~8-12-pin LEMO and have two channels of audio input, headphone output, timecode and genlock in the mix. Have hundreds of the male LEMO connectors in stock. While people would be initially resistant to buying and building a new cable, it would be a perfect solution to the audio dilemma. Talk to Coffey and Location Sound... hell, they could have "RED Audio to ______" dongles built and in stock before the camera even shipped.

Is the shoulder pad removable?

That's probably enough questions for now. This is a big improvement. I'll continue to brainstorm. Thanks, guys.
 
having a docking battery/drive mag type decide would be cool.
and having the options to mount other types of stuff on the back with a solid connection to the camera would be truly modular.

I'd love to see the control panel on the back moved to the side or if you can't make it removable so you can dock the battery/drive mag on the back and control the camera via wifi if needed.

Can't the flash card be built into the camera permanently so it could be with the controls.

I do think the most people would be shooting with the RED RAM when it gets released. CF is great for stripping the camera down and if you gone to be bumped around.

I shoot the RED Drive as much as I can as they are so much easier to managed and kept productions moving compared to CF.

If EPIC has the same removable media port like the R1's CF module, I'd ask does the module have to be removable.

Brook you have some great suggestions.
 
Jim,

You just made another quantum leap forward.

I think how you've designed the connectors is GREAT. I LOVE IT. The "Dumb" side should probably be renamed the "Precocious" side.

I sense a shivers of fear going through Munich and Woodland hills.

My one thought is where will I put the battery or does this thing run on Nitro? I like the battery low on the dumb side, helps balance the EVF. Can the design somehow anticipate and accommodate the Battery and EVF ?

It also might be worth it to skip the built in full sized XLRS and use something like a Neutricon SC8/MC8 interface ? or have that area of the breakout box be modular - you are never going to be able to come close to solving everyones audio desires, and why should you ? Just have a port, that lets 3'rd party makers go wild.

Looked at the pictures again, I still love it, total camera porn. Perhaps the port marked TBD is the one for the Mixer ? Brilliant is that's what it is.

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com
 
Brook Willard said:
What's in the riser block between the sliding base plate and the main body of the camera? Are there brains in there or is that a block that could be made removable [by having those brains shifted elsewhere in the body... even if it meant lengthening it by an inch]? Having the optical axis unnecessarily low [to less than 80mm... so that video rods could clear the bottom] would open huge doors for accessorizing and building the most badass handheld rig ever. I'm talking crazy low... lower than any film camera. If that block disappeared and was redistributed elsewhere, it would make an enormous difference [and would solve the only ergonomic point that couldn't be solved with an accessory].
Click to expand...

I think this houses the cooling of the camera as it is with Red One. If You remove it and the body "drops" lower - the optical axis of the lens will not align with any industry standard accessories (matte-boxes, etc...)

Just my two pesos... :)
 
Of course, it wouldn't line up without the proper accessory.

I hate to use my old standby as an example, but look at the 235. In order to match the 15mm studio standard to use industry standard accessories, you must install a riser block. The riser block is a piece of milled metal that bolts to the bottom of the camera under the shutter. When you mount the appropriate sliding base plate on the bottom of that riser block, the optical distance from the rod channels to the lens is the proper distance.

Here is a hand-drawn example pulled from Matt Uhry's post in the first rendering thread. I have circled the riser block in this illustration. This block would be removable.

5_1219295033.jpg


While it may look very similar to the Epic's front [non-removable] riser block as of right now, the ability to remove this block opens a lot of doors. The ENG/EFP guys should love it as well, as they'd be able to pass through their video rods.
 
Looks great, one of my question is, how EPIC will be usable as shoulder camera, batteries and hard drive as counterweight? Enough? What, if the hard drive will be a less heavier flash drive, the batteries gets smaller? That's a serious problem if you operate the camera yourself, the right hand holds the camera, the left pulls focus. To much weight in front with lenses, focus, matte box. What Brook and Matt illustrated is a kind of Aaton body, and this camera is way of the best shoulder camera I hold in hand. So how could EPIC be married with an Aaton?
 
Daniel Reichenbach said:
Looks great, one of my question is, how EPIC will be usable as shoulder camera, batteries and hard drive as counterweight? Enough? What, if the hard drive will be a less heavier flash drive, the batteries gets smaller? That's a serious problem if you operate the camera yourself, the right hand holds the camera, the left pulls focus. To much weight in front with lenses, focus, matte box. What Brook and Matt illustrated is a kind of Aaton body, and this camera is way of the best shoulder camera I hold in hand. So how could EPIC be married with an Aaton?
Click to expand...

You are kidding... right?

Jim
 
Jannard said:
You are kidding... right?

Jim
Click to expand...

I think it's a yes and a no there Jim. I think they're all seeking the balance that the magazine of the AATON provides. So if you guys could make a clever click on "cradle/cage" where the necessary stuff as drives and batteries could go, then it could counterbalance the weight of the EPIC body.

I think Brooks idea of having a mount for the wifi controls in the back that then can be the mount the "cradle/cage" was a good idea.
 
Well, I'm liking this break out box a lot!

Jim, does this fully replace or mount on top of the existing side panel? Will this mean that without the BOB there will be the option of a side mounted power/drive connector?
 
Jannard said:
You are kidding... right?

Jim
Click to expand...

No, not really, because the cam has a nice shoulder pad doe's not make it a perfect shoulder cam. So, I'm curious about the option. That's all. Sorry if you hate me now :biggrin:
 
I think it's really beautiful.
You guys are wonderful designers.

My main concern is shown here:
582_1219303295.jpg


I believe that minimizing this distance is important. I think I'd rather see the additional area, now on the front bottom section of the camera be on top.

Ok so please understand my underlying reasoning behind the suggestion I'm going to make:
1. There is no reason to think of the camera as having a proper top and bottom or left of right side. On a digital camera we can easily flip the image so the main thing that matters in terms of how we orient the camera is that the operators side is clear in most situations.
2. Most situations where the operator side must be clear, we have more additional clearance above the camera.
3. Its not neccessary to have clearance for rods underneath the mount and in some cases under the lense. When a pulling focus handheld we shall often use a remote focus unit, which can mount from top rods eliminating the need to access the rods directly below the lense.
4. Their is an advantage to having the nodal point as close as possible to the shoulder. It's nice to at least have the option.
Here's what came into my mind.
582_1219302873.jpg

You can see the actual shape of the body is just rotated.

It's late, can't sleep and I'm being creative.
Cheers,

IBloom
 
You guys need a lesson on board design and cramming ten tons of corn into a half pound bag. Look at the D-20, the Dalsa, The F-35, the Genesis and tell me we aren't doing a miracle here. Once again... this is NOT a film camera. If you want an Aaton on your shoulder, go buy a lot of film. We have been trying to listen and respond. But you guys are crazy... :-) Wouldn't it be nice if we just lowered the price to $2K? Getting 5K to operate at 100fps in a body that is 1/3 smaller than a RED ONE (already a small camera compared to anything close- or, forgot... there isn't anything close) and run at higher data rates without melting the skin off you fingers is a trick in and of itself.

We are pretty well done here.

Jim
 
Daniel Reichenbach said:
No, not really, because the cam has a nice shoulder pad doe's not make it a perfect shoulder cam. So, I'm curious about the option. That's all. Sorry if you hate me now :biggrin:
Click to expand...

I don't hate you... I've always liked you.

Jim
 
Peter Majtan said:
But what if You were to put some wide-front lens (like the Ultra-Prime 10) - wouldn't that interfere with the "Shoulder Mount / Baseplate"?
Click to expand...
That's why you can slide it backwards. On a wide lense you can deal with a little more play... I don't pretend to be a camera designer. I'm just throwing in my two cents.
Peter Majtan said:
EDIT: I also think the center of gravity is little more back - somewhere around where the XLR's are...
Click to expand...
The center of gravity is going to move depending on what lense you are using. So the position of your shoulder relative to the camera also needs to move.
 
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