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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

New dovetail needs to be bought?

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donatello said:
i assume i can do the same ( perhaps fine print under the photo stating the set up is for photo purposes only and not intended to be used on tripod as shown in photo??) ..
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good idea.. but we will just get some new photos to be more clear and to avoid confusion. The camera isnt being "used" in that photo, but im starting to understand how people are thinking the way they are.
 
Jarred Land said:
It is a shoulder mount... it was designed as a shoulder mount. It is named a Shoulder mount.....

People who are saying they bought a shoulder mount and thought it was a tripod mount I don't really know what to tell you..
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FvLbxD4Pbs

Matt Tremblay states in this video that it is made for putting on a tripod.

This thread makes me pretty upset.

Ian Bloom
 
zak forrest said:
Yes and the "shoulder" mount has holes in it for a tripod.
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that is so it can be put on a head for stationary purposes, or camera cart or because it doesnt "rest" when you put it down.. like in the photo :)
 
ibloom said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FvLbxD4Pbs

Matt Tremblay states in this video that it is made for putting on a tripod.

This thread makes me pretty upset.

Ian Bloom
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That video is from a year ago.. with parts that don't exist. (that is not the shoulder dovetail) it was a prototype that didn't work... hence, the cheeseplate.

Ian... relax.

jedi666 said:
But that doesnt make any sense.. why wouldn't you just call it a shoulder mount and not a dovetail? first dovetail that doesn't dovetail.
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Do you even know what a dovetail is? It has a dovetail. it is a dovetail.

You guys are starting to frustrate me.
 
zak forrest said:
Yes and the "shoulder" mount has holes in it for a tripod.
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Let's face it, they probably originally intended it to work perfectly on a tripod and it ended up with a tiny wobble. The"hole" design wasn't the best choice. But I will be quick to add when I get my camera on there and I do a tilt or pan I'm not seeing wobbles. It's only if you grab the camera and shake it around in a way that you'd never do in a real shot that you can get it to wobble. I guess that's disconcerting... but that's about all.

To me a cheesplate isn't a particularly appealing alternative. I might as well toss another rail system on at that point. But spending twice as much from ET doesn't sound great. The basic production pack starts looking pretty good when you think of what you get for the money.

Which reminds me, I just had my production pack replaced and the parts all fit tight. The handgrip is rock solid and the new finish is great.
 
joelnet said:
Let's face it, they probably originally intended it to work perfectly on a tripod and it ended up with a tiny wobble. The"hole" design wasn't the best choice. But I will be quick to add when I get my camera on there and I do a tilt or pan I'm not seeing wobbles. It's only if you grab the camera and shake it around in a way that you'd never do in a real shot that you can get it to wobble. I guess that's disconcerting... but that's about all.

To me a cheesplate isn't a particularly appealing alternative. I might as well toss another rail system on at that point. But spending twice as much from ET doesn't sound great. The basic production pack starts looking pretty good when you think of what you get for the money.

Which reminds me, I just had my production pack replaced and the parts all fit tight. The handgrip is rock solid and the new finish is great.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure...are you being humorous here? Your system is tight and doesn't wobble...because you replaced the production pack and got the new finish as well?

As for me, I got an exceptionally loose one. It doesn't take unusual shaking or movement to rattle.The bottom of the mount that bolts to the plate is rock solid.:blush: It's the dovetail lock that moves. I'm not sure why this is acceptable in a handheld situation.:blink:

I'm not really all that bent about this situation, I would probably be perfectly happy with an exchange for one that wobbled a lot less. I honestly thought this was marketed as a mount that also had the option of morphing into a shoulder mount. Not a shoulder mount that could be used on a tripod in a pinch.
 
Hi guys, this is Matthew Tremblay. I am the designer of the Red Shoulder Dovetail and every other piece of RED gear that exists. I thought it was time for me to step in for clarification on this matter. In regards to the "Youtube" video, you were seeing NAB 2007 which displayed an old concept of the RED RAIL SYSTEM. Every part on that system has been completely redesigned to cut weight. I was able shave over 6 pounds off the rail system alone. So what you see on "youtube" and what currently exist as a product line is completely different, so please do not compare them.

In regards to the Shoulder Dovetail, this design was created to give the user the ability to go from a primarily shoulder mounted situation to a stationary tripod mount quickly. Now, with that being said, It was not designed to go from the shoulder into a hard mounted situation where you are doing fast dynamic movements. We were designing this more for a documentary style setup where the camera would be on your shoulder the major of the time, or the camera would be stationary without much movement. It was never meant to be "rock" solid... That is why I designed the RED CHEESE PLATE.

As for the wobbling problems that much of you are experiencing, this is due to the durometer and thickness of the rubber insert to allow for graceful locking mechanism movement. As Jarred said before, currently, we are prototyping an alternative insert that should allow for "sturdier" fixed mounting..."sturdy" does not mean "rock"solid... Again, that is why the CHEESE PLATE exists.
 
wshultz said:
I honestly thought this was marketed as a mount that also had the option of morphing into a shoulder mount. Not a shoulder mount that could be used on a tripod in a pinch.
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My first one was one of the "troubled" production packs and it had several issues. I sent 'em to RED and they took good care of me. What they sent back is totally usable right now. So I guess I just wanted to put some people's mind at ease. If they can replace the locking mechanism or the rubber pad to be tighter still that would be awesome.

In the end it's a price/value proposition. The answer won't be the same for everyone.
 
we are listening....

just dont try and tell us why we make decisions.
 
Matt Tremblay said:
Hi guys, this is Matthew Tremblay. I am the designer of the Red Shoulder Dovetail and every other piece of RED gear that exists. I thought it was time for me to step in for clarification on this matter. In regards to the "Youtube" video, you were seeing NAB 2007 which displayed an old concept of the RED RAIL SYSTEM. Every part on that system has been completely redesigned to cut weight. I was able shave over 6 pounds off the rail system alone. So what you see on "youtube" and what currently exist as a product line is completely different, so please do not compare them.

In regards to the Shoulder Dovetail, this design was created to give the user the ability to go from a primarily shoulder mounted situation to a stationary tripod mount quickly. Now, with that being said, It was not designed to go from the shoulder into a hard mounted situation where you are doing fast dynamic movements. We were designing this more for a documentary style setup where the camera would be on your shoulder the major of the time, or the camera would be stationary without much movement. It was never meant to be "rock" solid... That is why I designed the RED CHEESE PLATE.

As for the wobbling problems that much of you are experiencing, this is due to the durometer and thickness of the rubber insert to allow for graceful locking mechanism movement. As Jarred said before, currently, we are prototyping an alternative insert that should allow for "sturdier" fixed mounting..."sturdy" does not mean "rock"solid... Again, that is why the CHEESE PLATE exists.
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I have taken it 100% apart to try and fix it. I can't. If you would machine the slot to be wider all issues would go away right now. The round "pin" that pushes up inside the bottom mount is very small, this acts as a ball would under a dish, the dish will wobble and fall as does the dovetail when you push on it. If you would replace the point contact with a flat BAR that was wider I think it would go away....

with me on this?
 
obin said:
I have taken it 100% apart to try and fix it. I can't. If you would machine the slot to be wider all issues would go away right now. The round "pin" that pushes up inside the bottom mount is very small, this acts as a ball would under a dish, the dish will wobble and fall as does the dovetail when you push on it. If you would replace the point contact with a flat BAR that was wider I think it would go away....

with me on this?
Click to expand...

I here you, and you are on track with our thinking on this. For immediate resolution, it might be interesting to attempt what I have heard others(Jay and Grandpa) suggest previously.
 
Matt Tremblay said:
I here you, and you are on track with our thinking on this. For immediate resolution, it might be interesting to attempt what I have heard others(Jay and Grandpa) suggest previously.
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Your quoting "Grandpa it Burns" now?

Some help here below for you Matt. I am sure Red has a good health plan. They say it will take about 5-7 years of work to pull through it. We are all routing for ya man.

http://www.healthatoz.com/healthato...z/Atoz/ency/multiple_personality_disorder.jsp
 
Jarred Land said:
It is a shoulder mount... it was designed as a shoulder mount. It is named a Shoulder mount.....

People who are saying they bought a shoulder mount and thought it was a tripod mount I don't really know what to tell you..
Click to expand...

With respect Jarred why in the Basic production kit is there no option for tripod mounting? This would lead anyone to believe that the shoulder mount that also mounts to the tripod would be sufficient. Thats how I read it and was not told otherwise. Was told the basic production kit was everything we needed to get shooting.

I'd consider something as 'basic' as tripod mounting to be included in that kit. It is fundamental. I dont get the omission, really. Its THE most basic essential

If you didnt think the dovetail was good enough from day one, then why isnt the cheeseplate part of the production kit instead? To make people buy that as a seperate item - well it makes no sense.

but enough complaining. ive already ordered the cheeseplate. But I was hoping you might come out with a better solution.
 
No problem Matt,

I have been going through the same therapy for my belief that I am "The Hoff" but it's my bouts as "Lady Godiva" combined with my Goldwing that have got me in the most trouble.
 
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