New Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 6K

[Jacek Zakowicz]

The sample footage looks kind of videoy, does anyone else see that too or is it just me?

Definitely- had the same impression. Grading?

 

[rand thompson]

Could Just be my grading! Here's the Specs For the Video.

Heres a link for the Raw video files If you want to try.


https://downloads.blackmagicdesign....raw/fashion/ef0d020c/BMPCC6K-Fashion-BRAW.zip

 

[rand thompson]

Could be that since I'm not that familiar with grading Blackmagic Braw footage that I used the wrong settings. I did use "Use Video Black Level".

 

[John Brawley]

I see most avoiding answering my question haha. I w9nder why.....

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...ma-Camera-6K&p=1864575&viewfull=1#post1864575


And to paraphrase myself
"With the G2 theres internal ND, much higher dynamic range, two customisable SDI outs, full size XLR audio, higher integration time (less RS), much higher frame rate options, interchangeable and user shimable lens mount, EVF that's designed to work with it, ProRes444 option (only to HQ on the 4K/6K), orientable screen, more accurate TC clock with a dedicated TC input, ref input for multicam...that's a lot more that's different than the same..."

You're asking on the wrong forum. Why don't you go and make the claim on BMD's forum ?

Give me a single example where BMD have stratified their camera line, deliberately holding back a function of feature. You're arguing by choosing not to do PL that they've done that here. The gigantic list of features above I just listed says otherwise. You haven't made that case, but feel free to say it as often as you can.

You are missing the point:
All I'm saying is that BM put an intentional barrier in it in the form of EF mount to protect UMP2.
But it's their product and their decision. I am just calling them out on it. Otherwise it would mean that they are just incompetent, I don't believe this is the case based on my dealings with them....

You haven't made that case.

Their very first camera was EF mount.

You know that the you can only buy the G2 as EF mount right ? To make it PL you have to BUY a seperate PL mount. It's an optional accessory.

EF mount is the most ubiquitous and sensible mount to appeal to the widest number of users for the sensor size of the P6K camera.

PL mount users would be at most a few hundred sales on this camera. Nothing compared to the many many thousands of EF mount cameras they will sell. Pretty sure it would add about 500 bucks to the price as well.

I have a question:
Do you think that BMPCC6K available with PL mount , E mount, RF mount, would affect the sales of UMP2? (UMP in PL mount B/C as of now UMP2 EF is dead)

As i pointed out. You can ONLY buy G2 in EF mount. Then you buy and fit a PL mount for it separately.

I wouldn't be surprised if a PL mount showed up in a little while if enough people ask. Of course you'll come back and amend all these posts right and say you were wrong ?

E mount won't happen, Sony dont license and they won't make a dumb e mount camera cause that would be as dumb as the claim you're making that they deliberately crippled the 6K by "only" making it in EF mount.

RF mount I would have said no, for the same reason that Sony don't licence, but with komodo, maybe Canon are more open to RF so who knows...

The BMD users most upset are the P4K users. Even though the P6K is a significantly different camera, they're the ones making the most noise about this release.

I don't get the actual point of your ahh ha conspiracy theory here. Please enlighten us to the meaning you're trying to infer.

JB

 

[Misha Engel]

I have a question:
Do you think that BMPCC6K available with PL mount , E mount, RF mount, would affect the sales of UMP2? (UMP in PL mount B/C as of now UMP2 EF is dead)

No, the UMP line is a total different camera with a lot of higher end options (more I/O, higher framerate, more DR, 12G-SDI, dual storage, dual sensor readout like ARRI, etc..).

I do hope BMD will release a 6k FF UMP camera with an updated fairchild imaging sensor under $15k.

The BMPCC6K is a consumer camera for a consumer price which is better in many ways than a professionel camera with an according price.

 

[Jacek Zakowicz]

Again, NOBODY here cares what market the camera was intended for.
BM camera are not used for medium or higher budget productions here- RED and ARRI are easy enough to get and they are being used.
That leaves BM the indie market.
Indie market basics:
Resolution sensitive
Price sensitive.
Size sensitive since they have to do a lot of setups
Everything else can be worked around and is worked around.
Also Indie market needs versatility to be abler to use different lenses on their cameras- they don't like buying multiple cameras and they are happy with adapters and very efficient at it.
For the third and hopefully last time I'm putting it in bold letters to make it crystal clear:
EF MOUNT IS BMs ATTEMPT TO PROTECT HIGHER PRICED CAMERA LINE THAT IN SME RESPECTS IS INFERIOR TO BMPCC6K
IF BMPCC6K WAS MORE VERSATILE MOUNT WISE IT WOULD EFFECTIVELY KILLED OFF THE SALES OF THE UMP2
Just like FS7 killed F5, F55 for Sony- they tried very hard to market the FS7 as a "Cinema Verite" only camera but the users saw right through it and couldn't care less. $6000 for the fS7 vs $17000 for the F5 spoke loud and clear- see where we are with those today....
Uproar or no uproar from the F5/F55 owners did not make a bit of difference- neither did the "intended market" marketing spiel haha...

 

[Sabyasachi Patra]

EF mount is the most ubiquitous and sensible mount to appeal to the widest number of users for the sensor size of the P6K camera.

PL mount users would be at most a few hundred sales on this camera. Nothing compared to the many many thousands of EF mount cameras they will sell. Pretty sure it would add about 500 bucks to the price as well.

JB

Not withstanding what some of the members here may think, the BMPCC 6k With EF mount will be a best seller.

 

[Savannah Miller]

The sample footage looks kind of videoy, does anyone else see that too or is it just me?

It's also exposed for 400 ISO. The pocket 4K looks the best in 800-1000 ISO where the dynamic range distribution favors the highlights, hence why the demo of the surfboard maker tends to look the best. The early Pocket 4K demo of the Hot Air Balloon ride also had a bit nicer highlight range, and it was too exposed at 800.

[video]https://player.vimeo.com/video/352651921[/video]

 

[Gunleik Groven]

I have a question:
Do you think that BMPCC6K available with PL mount , E mount, RF mount, would affect the sales of UMP2? (UMP in PL mount B/C as of now UMP2 EF is dead)

In short: Not dramatically. I would think that the Pocket mostly generate additional sales. Some to UMP2 owners who wants a small and somewhat matching B-cam.

I think a lot of the pocket 4K guys want to upgrade, judging from the immediate availability of those cameras on our local "Craigslist".

So no: I think BM is just expanding the users in their eco-system with this move.

Those who couldn't afford the 4K can get them 2nd hand.
Those who can afford the 6K gets them
And the UMP2 guys have a new crash-cam in sight.

 

[Jacek Zakowicz]

In short: Not dramatically. I would think that the Pocket mostly generate additional sales. Some to UMP2 owners who wants a small and somewhat matching B-cam.

I think a lot of the pocket 4K guys want to upgrade, judging from the immediate availability of those cameras on our local "Craigslist".

So no: I think BM is just expanding the users in their eco-system with this move.

Those who couldn't afford the 4K can get them 2nd hand.
Those who can afford the 6K gets them
And the UMP2 guys have a new crash-cam in sight.

Of course with only EF mount the impact will be less, that's why it is only ef mount. with more versatility this camera would really shine but it would also kill the more expensive BM cameras

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

Of course with only EF mount the impact will be less, that's why it is only ef mount. with more versatility this camera would really shine but it would also kill the more expensive BM cameras

No it wouldn't because not all people buy cameras for partial image specs alone, there are also functionality, practicality and operability factors where 6K doesn't compensate.

 

[Phil Holland]

Yikes, some all caps going on. I'll use mine at the beginning of sentences.

The first thing to note is the core market of many of these BMD cameras that are packed with "merely" an EF mount is to the tune of around >80% of the user base, probably higher since I checked in, use EF mount glass for these cameras. This is mostly reflected by the pricing tier and what the user base can generally afford when it comes to lenses. The vast majority of BMD shooters do not ever rent or purchase PL glass. Despite there being many more much more affordable options on this front, which conveniently either have interchangeable mounts or ship with EF as well. Almost like that happens for a reason despite all of us knowing PL is much more ideal for day to day motion picture production.

It's not that PL will poach the market from the G2, it's that the market and customer base wants EF mount because they are already invested and their is the general pricing tier of glass they float in. With a product priced like this, you're going to aim it's feature set towards the core audience for such a thing. If they added a user interchangeable mounting system to the P6K, you'd be looking at a more expensive camera, just like their higher end model..... EF is cheap to deploy at this point, which also helps with the camera cost.

Jacek's mostly coming from the angle of "wow now that there's a 6K camera out there for less the bigger camera at lower res is dead" without looking at the other features of the camera at all. This will likely also happen with Komodo from some corners as well, but with a smaller form factor comes pros and cons. Professionals sort of understand that, especially if kitting out a main camera, b-cam, etc.

Heh. Here I am defending BMD. Which I'm fine with, I understand the market placement of the pocket cams. But as somebody involved with a few other communities there's a host of P4K owners who are feeling fairly burned that a new cam out so quickly (it came out less than a year ago) while many are waiting for pre-orders even apparently, which I didn't even know about until this camera hit the market, but that likely alludes to why it's being released now as well.

Whatever the case, BMD is expanding their lineup. Certainly making things more interesting in the entry level space.

 

[Misha Engel]

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/lucadapters/pre-order-magicbooster-pocket-6k?ref=cea743&token=ca03e3ed&fbclid=IwAR3MpgSKFkRYgN-UesY-k4L7pQyCi0Glfvnvo9FcVbl1U5mnMfmcgmcmw7I

 

[Jacek Zakowicz]

Yikes, some all caps going on. I'll use mine at the beginning of sentences.

The first thing to note is the core market of many of these BMD cameras that are packed with "merely" an EF mount is to the tune of around >80% of the user base, probably higher since I checked in, use EF mount glass for these cameras. This is mostly reflected by the pricing tier and what the user base can generally afford when it comes to lenses. The vast majority of BMD shooters do not ever rent or purchase PL glass. Despite there being many more much more affordable options on this front, which conveniently either have interchangeable mounts or ship with EF as well. Almost like that happens for a reason despite all of us knowing PL is much more ideal for day to day motion picture production.

It's not that PL will poach the market from the G2, it's that the market and customer base wants EF mount because they are already invested and their is the general pricing tier of glass they float in. With a product priced like this, you're going to aim it's feature set towards the core audience for such a thing. If they added a user interchangeable mounting system to the P6K, you'd be looking at a more expensive camera, just like their higher end model..... EF is cheap to deploy at this point, which also helps with the camera cost.

Jacek's mostly coming from the angle of "wow now that there's a 6K camera out there for less the bigger camera at lower res is dead" without looking at the other features of the camera at all. This will likely also happen with Komodo from some corners as well, but with a smaller form factor comes pros and cons. Professionals sort of understand that, especially if kitting out a main camera, b-cam, etc.

Heh. Here I am defending BMD. Which I'm fine with, I understand the market placement of the pocket cams. But as somebody involved with a few other communities there's a host of P4K owners who are feeling fairly burned that a new cam out so quickly (it came out less than a year ago) while many are waiting for pre-orders even apparently, which I didn't even know about until this camera hit the market, but that likely alludes to why it's being released now as well.

Whatever the case, BMD is expanding their lineup. Certainly making things more interesting in the entry level space.

You obviously see only a small part of the market - EF still camera lenses. There is so much more interesting imaging going on..... 80%, really- where did you get that number from? I'm curious to know because when I worked with BMD on a project they were nowhere near that...but that was few years ago with the reasonably priced PL lenses a fraction of the options we have today. And it went up to 80% despite the new offerings? hmmmm...

 

[Phil Holland]

You obviously see only a small part of the market - EF still camera lenses. There is so much more interesting imaging going on..... 80%, really- where did you get that number from? I'm curious to know because when I worked with BMD on a project they were nowhere near that...but that was few years ago with the reasonably priced PL lenses a fraction of the options we have today. And it went up to 80% despite the new offerings? hmmmm...

No sir. I see the majority market of who use these cameras and also talk to BMD fairly often. Mainly Resolve and box related things as of late.

Then again, from your POV perhaps all those EF mount cameras out there aren't using EF mount lenses. Maybe they are just using the force.

 

[Jacek Zakowicz]

No it wouldn't because not all people buy cameras for partial image specs alone, there are also functionality, practicality and operability factors where 6K doesn't compensate.

If that were true the Sony F5 would live a happy life along the FS7 that can be had for less than half its price. But it's all but gone today
Reasons?
Price, weight with the same sensor specs and less features. Again- the market doesn't care ;-)

 

[Jacek Zakowicz]

No sir. I see the majority market of who use these cameras and also talk to BMD fairly often. Mainly Resolve and box related things as of late.

Then again, from your POV perhaps all those EF mount cameras out there aren't using EF mount lenses. Maybe they are just using the force.

Or.... maybe they are not EF mounted cameras and they use PL vintage lenses that are all the rage and none of them are EF mounted, Contax lenses, Nikon lenses, emount lenses, M4/3 mount lenses, FD lenses etc....to you it may be a mysterious force, to me they are just different lens mounts...;-)

 

[Phil Holland]

Or.... maybe they are not EF mounted cameras and they use PL vintage lenses that are all the rage and none of them are EF mounted, Contax lenses, Nikon lenses, emount lenses, M4/3 mount lenses, FD lenses etc....to you it may be a mysterious force, to me they are just different lens mounts...;-)

Yes. I'm well aware of EF being a very adaptable mount. I have over 150 lenses and just machined some fun ones for stuff around 80 years old.

 

[rand thompson]

BMPCC 6K test 2 Anamorphic Plus


Another test video I made to see how the BMPCC 6K .braw footage handles


File info.

Download link files to test for yourself is below

https://downloads.blackmagicdesign....die-film/fed86dd0/BMPCC6K-Indie-Film-BRAW.zip

 

[Jaime Vallés]

You're all pretty. You can all go to the prom.