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Neutral Density Filters Advice

Phil Holland

Phil Holland

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Let me preface this question by saying I did indeed do a search and I'm about to do a bunch of research on NDs.

If you have a moment, I'd like to know what ND filters you guys are using, preferring, loathing on your Red.

Color shift? Ghosting? IRND? Image Quality?

We all have to use them, but I'm curious what everybody else is using and am seeking your opinions. It would be nice to gather a lot of those thoughts here.

Currently I'm looking at the Tiffen IRND, which I think are the newest kids on the block in ND technology.

Thanks for the help.
 
http://reduser.net/forum/showthread...chneider-Platinum-Series-and-Formatt-TruColor)

And one of the old threads so some info is a little out-of-date: http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?30459-Hot-Mirror-IR-Which-one

I have been using the Rosco TruColor IR on my R1 MX and have had good results but was very interested in Ryan's test results with the new Schneider's. If you have the money looks like the new Schneider Platinum filters are a good choice. I do not do much work that is so critical so I'm sticking with my Tiffen & Schneider ND's (.3 to 1.8) with the Rosco Trucolor for now.
 
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Thank you Steve. Well that's an incredibly nice and telling test. I do work where color is fairly important and each lens/filter combination will be profiled. I'll be taking a hard look at the Schneider Platinum filters.
 
Schenider NEW Platiunum's are the BEST for rental market and outperform most all... save panchros which cost 2x more and have senstive coatings that are more suitable for meticulous owner operators. (imho of course) and months of research.

also Toia has great advice... avoid STACKING ND's at all cost... that's where most of the problems come from. try to score the FULL sets from .3 to 1.8
 
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Josh Beadle said:
Does anyone use the Singh-Ray Vari ND products? If not, why not?

http://www.singh-ray.com/varind.html

I use for still photos - works great. Are there issues with use on RED?
Click to expand...

I can't recommend most Vari-ND filters I've seen on the market. Even on stills with deep aperture. Especially when shooting past 85mm. You lose sharpness pretty damn quickly at longer lengths. It's hard to see at 50mm and below, but it's still doing it's damage.

A very easy test to show the damage to the image detail is to grab a 200mm prime and shoot something far away with detail with and without the filter. Try wide open and all the way stopped down with both tests and you'll see the issue. Look at the image at 100% 1:1 pixel resolution. Every single one I've used and owned suffers from this.


IRND seems to be the real way to go. I'll be contacting Schneider next week. Although I don't know if I'll get a full set. Gotta think about practical usage. I don't think I've used a .3 on a shot in years, 1 stop is well within latitude on Red and I won't be stacking ever. .9 and 1.8 are likely going to be my first out of the gate.
 
I usually use a Pola so I find that I use the .6 the most and then .9 and 1.2. I've only used the 1.8 once in bright sun on a beach... Filmtools does not have these in stock BUT they do have a 10% off sale on this weekend + free shipping. I think you can order them now and they ship when the come in.
 
I am also considering some ND filters. For the foreseeable future I'll be using canon glass with my scarlet-x so I've considered getting a few 77mm ND filters or one vari ND filter.

Also, in regard to rectangular filters, which I am also considering as an alternative but it costs more $, should I go with 4x4 or 4x4.65? I have searched for the differences but haven't found anything to useful.

Should a .6(2 stops) and a .9(3 stops) be enough for regular use?

Thanks!

Edit: are these the filters everyone is talking about here?
http://www.abelcine.com/store/Schneider-4x4-Platinum-IRND.6-Filter/
 
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I have a Schneider Platinum IRND 1.2 and have been very unimpressed by it. It has a strong blue-green tint (which I originally mistook for IR pollution). I had a hard time white balancing with it in post. I'm sending it to Schneider today to make sure it's the way it should be or if something is wrong. Anyone else with the Platinum IRNDs have issues with the tint?

Very quick test pics: First one is control (no ND), second is the P-IRND without white balance.
 

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Very strange Chad. What was that captured on?

FYI, I spoke with Schneider Optics today and these Platinum IRNDs are on backorder darn near everywhere, but they are working on catching up with those orders by January. I am interested in the 77mm threaded version for some aerial work coming up in spring 2012, but those might not even be available until March/April. Cutting it close.
 
I have a schnieder ND six that has a similar weird color look. The rest of the set are fine, the six looks sickly.

Nick
 
Tim Whitcomb said:
Schenider NEW Platiunum's are the BEST for rental market and outperform most all... save panchros which cost 2x more and have senstive coatings that are more suitable for meticulous owner operators. (imho of course) and months of research.

also Toia has great advice... avoid STACKING ND's at all cost... that's where most of the problems come from. try to score the FULL sets from .3 to 1.8
Click to expand...

Tim, do you mean the IRND's? What would be best for the Epic? Schneider IRND series or normal Schneider ND and a seperate IR?
 
Phil Holland said:
I can't recommend most Vari-ND filters I've seen on the market. Even on stills with deep aperture. Especially when shooting past 85mm. You lose sharpness pretty damn quickly at longer lengths. It's hard to see at 50mm and below, but it's still doing it's damage.

A very easy test to show the damage to the image detail is to grab a 200mm prime and shoot something far away with detail with and without the filter. Try wide open and all the way stopped down with both tests and you'll see the issue. Look at the image at 100% 1:1 pixel resolution. Every single one I've used and owned suffers from this.


IRND seems to be the real way to go. I'll be contacting Schneider next week. Although I don't know if I'll get a full set. Gotta think about practical usage. I don't think I've used a .3 on a shot in years, 1 stop is well within latitude on Red and I won't be stacking ever. .9 and 1.8 are likely going to be my first out of the gate.
Click to expand...

I echo Phil's comments on vari NDs. I have had poor results, and so after a few tests went back to my old set up of glass ND filters in the matte box. It maybe be slower, and appear more clumsy at times, but the results are much better in my opinion!
 
Chad

If you WB in camera with the Platinum IR's, does it remove the color cast? What about WB in RCX? I have seen color casts like this before induced by IR filters, and generally you just need to adjust the WB with each filter. Having a gray card handy in your front box or set bag is kinda a necessity.
 
@Danai

He means don't use more than one filter at a time. if you want to lose 4 stops use 1.2 and don't stack a 3 and a 9.
Also be careful if a Pola that has IR as the is a right and wrong side.
 
So besides the Schneider Platinum ND's what are other good ND filters that are reasonably priced? Tiffen? I know those are about $150 a pop.

Edit: So looking around BH I noticed Tiffen also sells IR ND filters but they are $335 a piece.

The schneider IR ND's are about $250 and the regular Tiffen "white water glass" are $200 a piece.

Is the IR necessary? is it that bad in the Red camera?

Also I plan to start of with two; .6 (2 stops) and .9 (3 stops) or 1.2 (4 stops) What do you all think?
 
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