Netflix Post Technology Alliance Camera List

[Marc Wielage]

I was surprised to see the new Netflix "approved camera" list that came out this week (9/13/2018), just in time for IBC:

Alexa 65 & Alexa LF
Canon EOS C300 MKII, C500, C700FF & C700 Digital Cinema Cameras
Red MONSTRO, HELIUM, GEMINI
Panasonic VariCam and EVA1 Cinema Cameras
Sony VENICE Motion picture camera, PMW-F55, PMW-F5, PXW-FS7, PXW-FS7ii, F65, HDC-4300, PXW-Z450

And that's it for the entire camera list. I was surprised not to see older Red cameras or any Blackmagic 4K cameras there, because they had been there in the past.

Approved color-correction systems include:

Baselight v5
DaVinci Resolve Studio 15

and approved Editorial systems include:

DaVinci Resolve Studio 15
Media Composer
Premiere Pro CC

Officially, Netflix says:

"The Netflix Post Technology Alliance will act as a conduit for Netflix to support creatives and technology partners on new feature sets for tools, so artists can spend their energy on what matters most — the storytelling.

"Today, we’re launching a new logo program to help with this. When you see the Netflix Post Technology Alliance logo, you’ll know the product meets Netflix technical and delivery specifications today, and will continue to do so in the future."


You got me as to whether they'd approve products outside this list, or if this is just their "preferred" production & post workflow.

The full list and an explanation of Netflix 4K workflow ideas are at these links:

https://pta.netflixstudios.com/participating-products
https://medium.com/netflix-techblog/netflix-ptap-fcb0019b63fb

 

[Phil Holland]

It's important to click.

"The following RED Digital Cinema Cameras are Netflix Post Technology Alliance products: Monstro 8K VV, Helium 8K S35, Gemini 5K S35, Weapon 6K, Epic 6K, Scarlet W 5K, and Raven 4.5K."

 

[Phil Holland]

And I'll go on a rather stable limb and say there's a fair bit of other VFX related software that would make the cut. Just likely not listed yet.

But hey, I don't work over there or anything

From a post and QC perspective there's a lot of reasons various other cameras aren't on that list.

And there's the other factor in those who haven't gone through the Participant Program yet.

 

[Brian Timmons]

I understand the publishing of this document as it pertains to Netflix's own production standards and pipeline
but this list annually creates a bit of confusion and misunderstanding that's counterproductive to the greater production world.

I don't fault Netflix for this but producers and personnel that don't understand the context of the list (Netflix's own productions for the coming year)
and apply it to productions that likely have different needs and are distributed on platforms very different from Netflix.

Between general technical ignorance and a lack of critical thinking, lists like this can be problematic when read the wrong way.

Brian Timmons
BRITIM/MEDIA

 

[Keegan@Netflix]

Fair point Brian. Keep in mind this is a high level overview of the program so when Partner press came out there was a direct position by Netflix. There is additional details here: https://pta.netflixstudios.com/faq

What the article doesn’t go into detail about is all the proactive engagement we are doing in the production and post community to help educate anyone who is touching content whether it’s for Netflix now or in the future.

I understand the publishing of this document as it pertains to Netflix's own production standards and pipeline
but this list annually creates a bit of confusion and misunderstanding that's counterproductive to the greater production world.

I don't fault Netflix for this but producers and personnel that don't understand the context of the list (Netflix's own productions for the coming year)
and apply it to productions that likely have different needs and are distributed on platforms very different from Netflix.

Between general technical ignorance and a lack of critical thinking, lists like this can be problematic when read the wrong way.

Brian Timmons
BRITIM/MEDIA

 

[Patrick Tresch]

The truth is that there are many outdated technology that are still used for the big screen on a vast majority of feature productions.
Theater release should be the pinacle of the motion picture and a bit future proof.
Good that a content provider pushes the envelope to get the minimal quality level.
Now story telling is another thing, you could achieve a great story with a Smartphone, but it's not the point here.

Pat

 

[Brian Timmons]

Fair point Brian. Keep in mind this is a high level overview of the program so was Partner Press came out there was a direct position by Netflix. There is additional details here: https://pta.netflixstudios.com/faq

What the article doesn’t go into detail about is all the proactive engagement we are doing in the production and post community to help educate anyone who is touching content whether it’s for Netflix now or in the future.

Guess you never know who's reading.:smile5:

I appreciate the response Michael. The community engagement is a good idea.


Brian Timmons
BRITIM/MEDIA

 

[Stuart Hooper]

I'm hoping Phil's instincts on that extend to FCPX, though I understand it is still not integrated into many professional post-house workflows where a lot of back and forth between softwares is happening.

 

[Mike P.]

Do companies/manufacturers/software devs have to pay to be part of the Netflix Post Technology Alliance? Or is it a special interest group?

It seems to me that you can't 'act as a conduit to support creatives on new feature sets for tools, so artists can spend their energy on what matters most — the storytelling' by effectively limiting the tools/options available to them for telling their story. Doubly so when there are equal and/or arguably better options available. Half of those cameras can't produce an image as good (on paper or in practice) as a BUMP4.6k's image... And in terms of post, how exactly do they determine (and why would they care) what the project was edited/finished on?

I don't know; their list has alway reeked of faux-barriers to entry to me...

 

[Zeb B]

So I guess we won't be seeing Blair Witch Project, Slumdog or 127 Hours on Netflix :-(

 

[Mike Halper]

So I guess we won't be seeing Blair Witch Project, Slumdog or 127 Hours on Netflix :-(

That’s not what the list is for. They are approved cameras for use in “Netflix Original” productions. Netflix will still acquire and stream movies shot with other cameras, edited with other software, and graded with other software, but they won’t be Netflix exclusives.

 

[Aaron Lochert]

That’s not what the list is for. They are approved cameras for use in “Netflix Original” productions. Netflix will still acquire and stream movies shot with other cameras, edited with other software, and graded with other software, but they won’t be Netflix exclusives.

Even more than that. This is the announcement for the alliance and logo which will be stamped on various products, cameras, NLEs, VFX software, etc., similar to how "Energy Star" is stamped on appliances.

Maybe it's the cynic in me but I wonder how long before this becomes a way for Netflix to force manufacturers to "pay-to-play," like how BBB, Yelp, and other groups work.

In the end, I think all of this is still silly when their streaming bitrates are still 1/5 the capacity of physical media. 1080p BluRay up to 40mbps, Netflix 1080p: 5mbps. 4K Bluray: 82-128mbps. Netflix UHD: 25mb. Of course the telecom industry is a huge hurdle to fixing that problem. But as much as I'm aboard the RED resolution train, I don't care about pixel count until compression artifacts are invisible.

 

[Marc Wielage]

And I'll go on a rather stable limb and say there's a fair bit of other VFX related software that would make the cut. Just likely not listed yet.

Yeah, I thought the VFX list was equally bizarre.

So I guess we won't be seeing Blair Witch Project, Slumdog or 127 Hours on Netflix :-(

Netflix has always been willing to buy movie rights for films made entirely in 2K, including all the Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter films. But for films and TV series made for Netflix, they want to have the ability to approve the acquisition cameras and workflow. And for that, they won't allow a 2K-to-4K or 3K-to-4K uprez.

In the end, I think all of this is still silly when their streaming bitrates are still 1/5 the capacity of physical media. 1080p BluRay up to 40mbps, Netflix 1080p: 5mbps. 4K Bluray: 82-128mbps. Netflix UHD: 25mb. Of course the telecom industry is a huge hurdle to fixing that problem. But as much as I'm aboard the RED resolution train, I don't care about pixel count until compression artifacts are invisible.

I have to say, I'm a 330Mbps internet connection, and the bandwidth and picture quality we see from Netflix and Amazon are phenomenally good. It looks a lot better than over-the-air or satellite pictures to me, particularly the UHD HDR content. But I agree that on a slow internet connection, the compression artifacts can be awful, to the point where no amount of K will help.

 

[Keegan@Netflix]

Sorry Zeb don’t understand the context?

So I guess we won't be seeing Blair Witch Project, Slumdog or 127 Hours on Netflix :-(

 

[Keegan@Netflix]

There is no pay to play model and we aren’t telling creatives they have to use these sets of tools. What this does tell creatives and creative facilities that we are actively working with the manufacture and their current products meet delivery specifications for Netflix workflows and they will in the future.

The goal of this is to:
Improve and streamline workflows from camera to post.
Improve areas in the production pipeline that have creatives to figure out “work arounds” when products that are supposed to be compatible aren’t.
Work with creatives to funnel feature sets with manufactures in a more unfied approach.
Help us cover the amount of content being created in countries that might not have solid infrastructures.

Even more than that. This is the announcement for the alliance and logo which will be stamped on various products, cameras, NLEs, VFX software, etc., similar to how "Energy Star" is stamped on appliances.

Maybe it's the cynic in me but I wonder how long before this becomes a way for Netflix to force manufacturers to "pay-to-play," like how BBB, Yelp, and other groups work.

In the end, I think all of this is still silly when their streaming bitrates are still 1/5 the capacity of physical media. 1080p BluRay up to 40mbps, Netflix 1080p: 5mbps. 4K Bluray: 82-128mbps. Netflix UHD: 25mb. Of course the telecom industry is a huge hurdle to fixing that problem. But as much as I'm aboard the RED resolution train, I don't care about pixel count until compression artifacts are invisible.

 

[Eric Santiago]

Cust curious as to how Resolve makes it in that list as an editing app.

 

[M Most]

In the end, I think all of this is still silly when their streaming bitrates are still 1/5 the capacity of physical media.

Today. However, Netflix doesn't live in the here and now and never has. They live in the future, and nearly everything they do is done from that mindset. That includes both production and post recommended practices, delivery requirements, archiving procedures, and many other things. Once you understand that, a lot of things become a lot clearer.

 

[M Most]

Cust curious as to how Resolve makes it in that list as an editing app.

Editing doesn't just mean creative, "offline" editing, it also means conforming for the final finish. In its current form, Resolve is resolution independent (both input and output), handles all recommended shooting/recording formats, and creates Netflix spec deliverables. Why wouldn't it be on their list?

 

[Aaron Lochert]

Today. However, Netflix doesn't live in the here and now and never has. They live in the future, and nearly everything they do is done from that mindset. That includes both production and post recommended practices, delivery requirements, archiving procedures, and many other things. Once you understand that, a lot of things become a lot clearer.

That's a little beside the point. I shoot 8K for the same forward-thinking reasons. I commend them for the goal of "future proof" as much as I hate the term.

I'm mostly just venting frustration that we always seem to be one step behind with the necessary streaming bitrate for the resolution. 1080p is starved for bitrate. 4K is starved for bitrate. Ideally, Netflix, YouTube, etc., would offer an HQ 1080p mode with 25mbps+ (Blu-Ray quality) and not stream 4K until they can reliably provide the consumer with a 50-100 mbps stream. But reference-quality 1080p doesn't sell subscribers. Buzzwords like 4K does. So they provide it to consumers, caveats and all.

Here's an example from Stranger Things:

When this image is viewed at 100% (right click, open in new tab), you're viewing it at a representation of 4K at 1:1 pixels. The 4K stream is riddled with compression artifacts and reduced color fidelity. The 1080p BluRay, while lower resolution, is doing a far better job at holding grain. Only in the areas with fine fine details like hair and the jacket collar does the 4K stream actually demonstrate what a 4K container is capable of. However, that comes at the trade-off of macro blocking in the background and a generally mushy feeling image.

In my opinion 4K high bandwidth > 1080p high bandwidth > 4K low bandwidth. I wish content providers agreed.

So I fear that we'll always be that step behind. Once we finally have the means to deliver reference quality 4K streams, will Netflix and other services be selling bitrate-starved 8K to customers? I'd be willing to bet the answer to that is yes, because consumers are always chasing that thing they don't quite understand. And businesses aren't going to turn down the money so they'll meet that demand even if it means gimping it.

But I digress.

 

[Zeb B]

That’s not what the list is for. They are approved cameras for use in “Netflix Original” productions. Netflix will still acquire and stream movies shot with other cameras, edited with other software, and graded with other software, but they won’t be Netflix exclusives.

No shit. Joking here