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ND, IR and Polarizer filter help for Scarlet

Brandon J.F.

Brandon J.F.

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I've gone through a lot of old posts and I still can't decide what to buy. I posted this here because I think this is something a lot of new Scarlet users will need help with.

I need to buy some ND filters, an IR filter (or combo ND/IR) and a polarizer filter. I want to get quality filters that will last.

Should I have combination ND/IR filters or just normal ND filters and a separate IR filter?

Which ND strengths do you most commonly use?

Is there any reason to not use a combo ND/IR filter in all instances including shooting indoors?

Should I get a IR 680 or IR 750 filter? Which works best with RED sensors?

What polarizer filter should I get? I have ordered an OConnor O Box so there is the option of adding a 138mm filter. Should I do this and get a 138mm polarizer? Is it ok if a polarizer is the last filter?

My first instinct was to get Schneider Platinum IRND filters, but they are in very high demand. They seem to be sold out everywhere I look. Then I started to think that maybe there will be times when I need the IR filtration, but don't need any ND.

Is a filter kit like this one good? http://www.filmtools.com/schneider-red-essential-kit.html

I really appreciate any advice you guys can offer. Hopefully it's helpful to others as well.
 
this is a great thread. I just got 5 stops (3-1.5) of Tiffen IRND filters. I like the Tiffen's due to their glass process, those filters aren't coated, but rather two pieces of glass with the filter in the middle. I hope it was a good move, on the af100 tests they are great.

I saw a test with an epic someone posted, I did a search for it in the forums, and their ND with mirror was still very bad on anything past 9 or stacked, redish/rusty looking blacks. They used an IRND filter and blacks were black. I am not too experienceed with them but on the information I got I went with IRND. Plus I did so because I only have 2 stages and don't want to keep an IR infront all of the time. Abel Cine had the best deal for filters if you decide to buy.

I would like to also know about plain IR with no ND, is it needed and in what situations.
 
There's been several discussions on ND, IRND, and HMND filters. It's certainly a subject/issue/tool that everybody will have to deal with at some point.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?67617-Neutral-Density-Filters-Advice

For the time being I picked up Formatt 0.9 and 1.8 HMNDs and so far am pleased with them. I don't have my Scarlet X yet, but when I get it I'll be doing a lot of tests.

I placed a called to Schneider Optics about the Platinum IRNDs. They are attempting to catch up on back ordered filtration by January/February. The 77mm Platinum IRNDs don't go into production until March 2012-ish.

Personally I'll be picking up a full set of the Schneider's once they become available.
 
Chris McKechnie said:
I have heard that the Schneider Platinum IRND's are worth every penny (about $300/filter).
Click to expand...

They are. I did some testing a week or so ago. The Formatt's I'm currently using are temporary. Tiffen's aren't bad. Currently the Schneider Platinum IRNDs are the best thing out there on Red MX sensors. That's my opinion, but I checked out several brands during that test and Schneider was the clear choice.
 
Hi Phil,

Just to confirm these are the Tiffens you are referring to http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...INDPROKT_77mm_Indie_Pro_Infrared_Neutral.html

Did you experience the same green casting as per belows test?

http://duncandavidson.com/blog/2011/06/nd_test

Appreciate your opinion on how problematic, limiting or not you think this would potentially be in terms of post correction. How much of a deal would you see it when your white balance is just metadata with R3D's? I have watched Ryan Walters IR epic test also, and the schneider's are clearly excellent. But a screw on kit like this at the price point has some appeal to me in regards to shooting light and guerilla work. Not sure I can hang out till March for schneiders 77mm and could prove too exxy for me... so trying to weigh it all up and I think everyones in agreement your 2 cents is always worth a good few bucks around here :))

Thanks

Best

Lliam
 
Lliam Worthington said:
Did you experience the same green casting as per belows test?
Click to expand...

Yes. But it's not as clear as that test. I would avoid stacking any of the IRNDs if you can. All of them introduced a cast, but what my tests are mostly concerned with is what can easily be color corrected out. The Tiffens and Schneider Platinums both introduce a little color cast to the image, as Ryan's tests above show. Both of them can be corrected out of the final image.

Next year I'll be going back to test some deeper filtration across the board (1.8 and beyond). When I do that I'll publish the test here.
 
EDIT* Just read your response Phil - posted while I was typing. Yeah that makes complete sense, thanks very much.

Ah wow. Cheers Sean. Just watched again and realised I had missed the amazing blog that goes with it and answered a lot of my thoughts.
Would still love to hear your opinions a bit more in depth on the Tiffens Phil if you have a moment. Based on Ryan's tests perhaps the blue and green tones of the Tiffens in the other test I posted are a better sign so too speak that they might not be too bad a purchase...

Best
Lliam
 
So far my shooting with formatt and the rosco ir filter have not produced the results he is getting and ND1.8, we are having quite a bit of luck with ours. I think some of this could vary in the rosco filter itself, from filter to filter. To be honest they do not seem like the highest quality filter. Maybe I got a brilliant one... lucky me... but I say test before you buy and make sure you get what works with you. And as Phil said do not stack IRND's you can get some funky stuff going on there.
 
Well, my O'Connor O-Box just arrived today. The rod support is en route from Wooden Camera and still deciding on what to do about filters.

EDIT: Disregard what I said about the front 4x5.65 tray falling through. Just needed to tighten a little red screw on the side.
 
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Brandon J.F. said:
Well, my O'Connor O-Box just arrived today. The rod support is en route from Wooden Camera and still deciding on what to do about filters. One potential problem I've noticed with the O-Box is that the front 4x5.65 filter frame barely stays in place. It keeps sliding down and nearly sliding out of the mattebox entirely. This is without a filter in the frame will will only weight it down more. I'm going to have to attached something to the bottom of the mattebox to keep the frame in place I think. Otherwise it will surely fall out eventually. Anyone else have this problem with an O-Box?
Click to expand...


Ive never used an O'Box, but are you sure there isn't a screw to tighten it?

I know on the RedRock, if you don't tighten the screw while holding the tray, it can fall all the way through.
 
Michael Millichamp said:
Ive never used an O'Box, but are you sure there isn't a screw to tighten it?

I know on the RedRock, if you don't tighten the screw while holding the tray, it can fall all the way through.
Click to expand...

You're right. There is a little red screw to tighten it. I found it right after I posted the previous message :)
 
Seems from Ryan's test that a dedicated IRND is best beyond .9. I guess that it makes sense . As you cut out visible wavelengths with the ND, the IR will have a greater influence as it becomes a greater percentage of the wavelengths that are hitting the sensor. You would need separate IR filters customized for each step of ND visible wavelength reduction for the color balance to remain unaffected. Or at least not red.

Anyone know if heat shield gels from Lee and Rosco will work as IR for lights? Rosco says that they(ROSCO #1991 and #1995) reflect IR energy to extend the life of your color gels so maybe they also help in IR sensor contamination as well.

I used to always used the UV gels with strobes to help cut the blue contamination on film from strobe heads that didn't have a UV coating on the tubes so it seems that the IR gels might be useful. Just a thought.
 
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