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Native R3D editing in CS6 and final export to 1080. 720 etc

Jim Coulter

Jim Coulter

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Hi Everyone!

I'm looking for the best and FASTEST method of getting a project edited with native 4K R3D files in a 1080P timeline (within PP CS6) exported out to a 720 Pro Res 442 HQ or other file format.

I have been trying to export a project from CS6 (10 minutes long) to 720 Pro res 442 HQ master. Using Adobe Media Encoder the file usually hangs up at about 1/4 way through and I have to crash out of the encode. I have never actually finished an encoding. The progress bar starts out at 30 hours!!! then continues to go higher!

I have not been using max render quality. I have slightly faster results exporting directly from PP and avoiding AME but still ery slow results!!! I just did a test render from PP and set in/out point at 1 minute- it JUST finished 1 hour later!!!

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated! I DO have a Red Rocket installed. Thanks!
 
Jim, are you adding a lot of effects? I've had similar problems, but better results...a 58min doc took me 24 hours to transcode out of AME...with quite a few effects added, BUT, i still think too long for transcode. Your situation sounds stranger....You are upgraded with latest firmware for RR card and all Adobe yes? I don't render out of PP, but out of AME instead...Also be sure your RR card is not engaged with Premier...i forgot how to do that...but someone else should know...

**This is Notice to Adobe: there really should be an easy way to do this and white paper on it....Such as how to engage/disengage Rocket card for use in each piece of software so you know it's being used WHERE you want it...I'd just like to see a simple HOW to with R3d material with and without rocket card and methods to export out to 1080p for best results.

**this said, what is your intermediate codec? I actually like to use Prores or animation and transfer out as same so i can use my render files at highest quality.
 
I'm helping Jim via PM. Seems like it's related to the double scaling from R3D to 1080p and then to 720p in the export stage.
We'll figure it out. :)
 
Hey Johnny,

I think the double scaling is the cause of the slowdown. Keep in mind that the Rocket offloads pretty close to 100% of your CPU usage for ONE clip....If the scaling operation is being performed twice then the rendering process is much more complex. I am sure Jim will chime in with more results.

There is a bug logged on the 16x9 issue, however, the workaround isn't too painful (speaking for myself) Shoot FF and crop in post. If the few extra bits of storage aren't a problem, there are some upsides to cropping in post. (ability to pan or reframe, move up and down on the image etc)

I don't agree that simple exports have lots of issues. Most of these issues that I have assisted have been resolved. Many factors such as video card, video drivers, hardware config, software version / updates, etc come into play.

I work with many RED editors on a regular basis that are getting great results. I think the nature of this section of the forum (Adobe workflow) seems to attract more of the crowd that is figuring out the workflow or experiencing issues.

Here to help!

Wes
 
Thanks Wes...I'm coming from a slightly different arena....i hardly ever use adobe, but when i do, i find myself stumbling around...i love the idea of native workflow, but then get screwed up when doing simple things like an export and Premier has control of my rocket card and then nto being used in AME and things like that which are rudimentary when using it on a regular basis....So i find myself often spitting out prores 4444 files and working in FCP and Color....a place that seems very simple and easy for me. BUT, i'd like to overcome some of the adobe issues i've had in past and do those "simple" things.
....I'll be reading up on your posts for sure. Thanks.
 
In my particular workflow, I have to spit out various versions of an edit quickly, so the fact that you are using native RED files definitely takes a while to export vs. spending the time upfront transcoding to ProRes but having far quicker times on export. I would suggest to to Jim about the double scale, try exporting to 1080 first, and then with the result video, scale to 720. It will be much faster.
 
Johnny Friday said:
Thanks Wes...I'm coming from a slightly different arena....i hardly ever use adobe, but when i do, i find myself stumbling around...i love the idea of native workflow, but then get screwed up when doing simple things like an export and Premier has control of my rocket card and then nto being used in AME and things like that which are rudimentary when using it on a regular basis....So i find myself often spitting out prores 4444 files and working in FCP and Color....a place that seems very simple and easy for me. BUT, i'd like to overcome some of the adobe issues i've had in past and do those "simple" things.
....I'll be reading up on your posts for sure. Thanks.
Click to expand...

yup. I understand where you're coming from.

There are some great strengths to the Adobe workflow. I'm a shooter and editor myself. Feel free to PM or reach out in the future. Happy to help where I can.
 
Yeah, agreed!, that is a really good (and simple) solution.
 
I've found with problematic long renders that rendering to an image sequence can be helpful. If a render crashes in the middle, you can start rendering again from the frame you stopped at. Once the entire sequence is in an RGB image sequence format, you re-assemble those frames and render to your output.

It sucks, but sometimes it gets the job done with buggy software or hardware that has a lack of ram.

We use to do this with movie projects before 64-bit NLE software came along as well.
 
I think the issue is that you're using a Mac, it's hard to get support from the mercury playback engine without having a PC
 
Alexander Mejia said:
I've found with problematic long renders that rendering to an image sequence can be helpful. If a render crashes in the middle, you can start rendering again from the frame you stopped at. Once the entire sequence is in an RGB image sequence format, you re-assemble those frames and render to your output.

It sucks, but sometimes it gets the job done with buggy software or hardware that has a lack of ram.

We use to do this with movie projects before 64-bit NLE software came along as well.
Click to expand...

Yes, this works, but be aware of how the counting works....i think or recall something like first image is zero...i did this with several renders and had to figure out how to put them together back with Bridge and there was something with the numeration. It wasn't straight forward like i would expect--image one is 001....i think it began as image 1 is: 000
 
Jim Coulter said:
I'm looking for the best and FASTEST method of getting a project edited with native 4K R3D files in a 1080P timeline (within PP CS6) exported out to a 720 Pro Res 442 HQ or other file format.
Click to expand...

I've had the same issues and I don't even use a RR. Then I realized what the problem was: scaling on the timeline. My suggestions is to always edit R3D files in their native resolution. So instead of a 1080p timeline you go with the 4K timeline and then export through Premiere or AME to 1080p or 720p.

When I found out this my exports go 10-20 times faster.
 
Sami Sinervä said:
I've had the same issues and I don't even use a RR. Then I realized what the problem was: scaling on the timeline. My suggestions is to always edit R3D files in their native resolution. So instead of a 1080p timeline you go with the 4K timeline and then export through Premiere or AME to 1080p or 720p.

When I found out this my exports go 10-20 times faster.
Click to expand...

How would this affect then an MIXED timeline if you set it to 4k for Red files...and then mixed it with 720p and other varicam 1080p footage? So yes, it's blown up to 4k, then when you export you scale back down to 1080p--so then there is no issue with that 720p and1080p footage?? or is this just not a good road to go down unless all your footage is 4k and 5k?
thanks....
 
Matthew Braney said:
I think the issue is that you're using a Mac, it's hard to get support from the mercury playback engine without having a PC
Click to expand...

Sorry, Matthew, but this is not true at all.

Many people are editing successfully with CUDA on macs, including myself on Mac Towers AND Laptops.
I love my Quadro cards on my macs...
 
Johnny Friday said:
How would this affect then an MIXED timeline if you set it to 4k for Red files...and then mixed it with 720p and other varicam 1080p footage? So yes, it's blown up to 4k, then when you export you scale back down to 1080p--so then there is no issue with that 720p and1080p footage?? or is this just not a good road to go down unless all your footage is 4k and 5k?
thanks....
Click to expand...


When mixing with 720p footage, for example, my recommendation would be to eventually end up in a 720p timeline rather than scaling 720 to fit in a 5k Sequence - not recommended.


There are so many workflows here...so many great options. For example, you can even take a 5k timeline and export an XML file to REDcinex and trim the 5k files to just the portions that are being used. You can also scale the full file or these "sublicps" to 720 or 1080 using a batch process....

My personal preference is to stick with 5k as long as I can and when i need to mix with lower resolutions, I copy and paste my 5k media into them.

Keeping your sequence the same size as your export will utlimately accomplish what you want - one scaling operation.
 
Wes Howell said:
Keeping your sequence the same size as your export will utlimately accomplish what you want - one scaling operation.
Click to expand...

Wes, makes sense...just so hard to do with mixed camera shoot...therefore i usually drop everything to my 1080p timeline since that is what i'll output later.....at very end as my deliverable. So i don't have much of a choice when i mix one shot at 5k with a 720 or 1080 shot in same sequence...so seems like just choosing my export setting is best....but this may explain my huge 20 to 1 export times...even with RR card and Quadro 4000 card.
 
Hey Johnny,

I hear ya. Nothing wrong with working in a 1080 Timeline.

I think we can fix your 20 to 1 export times. :) If you want to run through some details, PM me and I'll send you my contact info.

Re: 5k Sequences: Yup, they're in there. With mixed footage from a R1..I'd probably work in a sequence that matches the desired export.
For example, if you needed 4k out. (to match the R1) I would just work in those settings. But only if you need 4k.

Otherwise, I'd just use a 1080p Sequence and I'd use "Scale to Frame Size" for the media. The only exception to that is if you need to zoom in on the images or if you have a Pan and Scan workflow.
In that case, I would not use Scale to Frame - I'd just use the regular motion settings in the Effects control window.


Wes
 
Excellent Wes....you can count on me contacting you...i'm off for a 2 week job, but then back to my stock soon after and figuring out best way to get images out to how i like them....Still having problems with a few tasks, but i sure hope to work those out with ya.
thanks.
 
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