NATIONAL GREEK TV -ERT CLOSED DOWN BY GREEK GOVERMENT - 2600 UNEMPLOYED

[jake blackstone]

You seem to be focusing on "government own" instead of "national". "National" means that a media entity has at least some kind of constitutional, legally binding responsibility towards the nation for which it creates the program. Which affects the type and quality of content. Which means there is some ethics involved in affecting that nation, its society and culture. Its identity, values, heritage, education, its mental and emotional state.

Responsibility which is not present in corporative owned media, with open hands to create the program in any way chosen, regardless on its effect on a nation.

In theoretical way may be, but in real world "government owned" read "national" is mostly used to further the agenda of those in power. Free media is the foundation of democracy. Being at the mercy of those in power is not free...

 

[Peter Karlsson]

But i'm not here to try and convince you about that because you already know it. for everyone else concerned, check the facts.

Ok, Im checking facts, and this is the fact I see when Im not going for the public myths of Greeks earning millions of Euros each year, all living in luxury and feasting on EU money all day long

Snippet from very good article at http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/...cling-the-Greek-Government-s-Shutdown-of-ERT#
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Indeed, many of the government's claims about ERT are, in large part, myths. One such myth were the large salaries and perks enjoyed by ERT employees. This belief was reinforced by various lists of salaries which began circulating on the Internet after ERT's shutdown, showing huge salaries for dozens upon dozens of ERT personalities and staffers. What was not often mentioned is that these lists were outdated and old, with salaries from the pre-austerity days in Greece, and in many cases, listing salaries of individuals who have long since departed from ERT. In any case, such examples of extravagance were the exception, not the norm. It's been reported that 36 ERT executives, appointed by the government, had salaries totaling the combined salaries of the remaining 2,600+ employees at ERT. The average salaries of ERT employees, in fact, reportedly range from 1,200 to 1,400 Euros per month, far lower than the accusations that most staffers were making 2,500 or 3,000 Euros per month. As recently as a few months ago, the Samaras government, which now claims to be "cleaning up" ERT, installed several high-salaried employees within the public broadcaster. Kedikoglou himself is a former ERT journalist, who allegedly was given a position in ERT in 1990 with the help of his father, then a member of parliament.
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[jake blackstone]

watch what happens. they will devalue the currency to a level beyond their obligations, they will have armed conflict, or they will be let go.

Well, that's how in the old days countries like Italy dealt with the problem. Alas, now they can't. Now the value of national currency is decided in Brussels, so for now there is no easy way to get out of paying on their obligations.

 

[constantine Tirintzis]

I might be completely off here but Kostas to me you look at it the wrong way. As I see it the TV station that is owned by the government ( they have the same setup here in Sweden) is the furthest thing you can find when looking for freedom of speech, or any such thing. It's simply a socialistic governments means to feed the "truth" to the people. In russia this channel (and newspaper) was called "pravda" which means "truth". So as I see it you have been deliberated as your Government decided to close down it's own most important channel to feed you their lies.

Now hopefully the Greece people will wake up, start their own channels of communications and the government will have much less chance to steer the debate. So they just tossed away something that, if you ask me, has been quite needed for socialistic government to last over time.

So it there is some talent among the TV staff that's been laid of they all ready started their kickstarter campaign and soon you will have multiple politcial TV stations that all try to show their view of the truth... and then I think the Greece people will realize that Government owned media is not really a good thing.

To me "Free media" is not government owned. Government owned media is a dangerous weapon used by totalitarian nations and dictators. And yes, in sweden we have "Pravda" in 2 TV stations and a few radio stations and it's even made this ugly medicine in such a tasty mix so people here actually want it and would vote to keep it... People even here think it's important to be spoken down to....

Hopefully internet stays some what free for a little longer then we can continue the trend that your country, seemingly unwillingly have started.. That's at least my opinion on the matter.

Bjorn hello. In a few words. Government organizations are a different thing here than Public Organizations. In any way, you are missing the point for one main reason. The problem wasn't that people don't want corruption to clear from any public service. What you do in this case is you make evaluation of the stuff that is either corrupted or not capable of doing the job, and you keep the good and capable stuff. There isn't one single example in the world history of Business scince that a business close down completely sucking ALL of the stuff, to reopen.
Businesses and organisations close down when they are not able to either make it and THEY NEVER REOPEN.

The reason I have started this Post wasn't for people to come up with solutions about what can be done or not in sense of politics, plans and so on.

The reason I started this thread was because 2600 people were sacked over night while on air, and ERT WAS CLOSED DOWN in AN ILLEGAL WAY with out this taken to the parliament, make a solid decision and so on. In fact they have used a side way doing this, which gives the power to the prime minister in MOST AND BIGGEST NATIONAL EMERGENCIES like for example WAR to close down the ERT, and not only that he has recently used this many times for many different things he could not PASS thru parliament.

THAT IS ILLEGAL, Its even What DICTATORS do in some cases.

Its not me that I say its illegal with my poor knowledge of legal education, ITS THE Greek constitution, and Council of state that has decided that.

and even now the government tries to find side ways in legal terms of how this decision was written so they can turn it up side down.

Bjorn those matters aren't as simple as you describing, if they were 90% of the corrupted systems would be solved by now, and your statement about kick starter is also OUT of this world.

For a start even so People decided to do this and tomorrow we have a PRIVATE but Free tv station do you really think that the government or any other factor that has interest on money deals and political favors would let that happen? Is that your conclusion looking at Europe right now?

Hypothetically anyone can come up and say or give a solution. But think again. You wake up tomorrow morning and your National Tv radios and newspaper as well as all symphonic orchestras are no longer exist because YOUR GOVERMENT sacked them over night CLOSSING DOWN the entire organization USING ILLEGAL WAY and WITH OUT TAKING THIS TO YOUR PARLIAMENT and CONGRESS , just like this ITS SHUT DOWN and 2600 PEOPLE are unemployed, WHAT WOULD YOU DO? that is the main point.

And shall we take this further? Lets say there is some corruption inside the public water company. What do we do? we shut down the water company entirely illegally and let people with out water and then try and reopen in the near future? and electricity too?

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[constantine Tirintzis]

In fact these broadcasters are supposed to be publicly owned, as in owned by the public, so not technically owned by the government, tho we are kind of into semantics there!

Freya

VERY CORRECT you said it better than me, sorry for my luck in English terms. Iam trying though...

 

[constantine Tirintzis]

This thread is allready far to political for not to be closed. But while it's still open...
Yes, commercial TV station can be looked upon as "not free" as the owner will assure what is being broadcasted. But the same argument goes for a government owned TV station. The Government maybe can not control the content in every detail but as you say they will teach you values, maybe good values, but also political and other values. And I can not think of one National TV station that is not trying to teach their people values that very much goes along with the ideas of the party in government. So for that reason I think it's quite dangerous to see those stations as nothing but tools to herd people.

In Sweden we got commercial TV very late, as the socialistic party managed to ban all other tv stations then their own for quite some time. It was a late as around 1990 that people here also got an alternative. Not saying the alternative was a better one but at least a second perspective.

THIS THREAD WAS MADE BECAUSE 2600 people working in NATIONAL TV ERT MOST OF THEM TECHNISIANS LIKE MANY PEOPLE ON THIS FORUM, CINEMATOGRAPHERS, AND DOCUMENTARISTS, HAVE BEEN SACKED OVER ILLEGAL PRACTICE INSIDE THE EU.
that's the reason why I made it. It you suggest it should be closed down then be it.

I thought it would be good for people to be aware of this, that's all.

best regards

 

[constantine Tirintzis]

constantine,

i'm sorry that a lot of good working professionals in greece lost their jobs, but that is the consequence of the way your government has been shamelessly burning EU money for years. and thats not only you national TV & radio administration - thats each and every other ministry / agency. 14+ salaries per year? 60 days vacation time? ++ another xx sick days? handing out random bonuses? for every 100 journalists there are probably 200 gardeners on staff at your national TV. for every 100 cameramen.. another 200 cleaning staff. CNN is spread out around 32 countries and employs approximately 3000 people. greece alone has 2600. and for the last year, all three national chanels put together have between 13-20% viewership compared to privately held networks. but i'm not here to try and convince you about that because you already know it. for everyone else concerned, check the facts.



i'm just saying that if you are good professional then there will probably be demand for your services and you will be fine. just, please, dont talk about freedom of speech and how you created DEMOCRACY, like there is some giant conspiracy to sell the national media and fire everybody and this shouldnt be happening.. the one real conspiracy is how most people in greece have managed to NOT pay any taxes for as long as .. well, ever since they became a member of the EU and the cash started flowing back in '81. and what is and has been happening in greece for years is just shameful and outrageous - not paying taxes is like an olympic fucking sport over there. but i guess thats OK too since you guys also invented the Olympics.. anyway, i should keep it cool.

jake and les were on the right track but this thread went in the wrong direction. and before everyone gets sentimental and all like "my heart goes out to all the documentarians and technicians who lost heir jobs at the TV station" please, keep an open mind and check the real story here. 324 000 euro - news chief's yearly salary / 218 976 euro - a news anchor yearly salary / journalists, correspondents and staff writers 84 000 - 176 000 euro per year / some junior positions make 60 000 euro which is like 80,149.61 USD. i'm wondering what media in the USA pays that kind of money for an enry level position? / ex-minister's cousin that has a weekly show gets 84 000 euro per episode. there is an instance of a whole family of 4 members that are all employeed at the national TV making close to a milion euro per year together. the recent audit also shows a "lack of transparency" about the inventory - it just hasnt been done for the last 8 years - oops! ok, i'll stop here.

now anyone care to comment?

Iam not going to start a nation to nation war and who is more or less corrupted my friend. You live in Sophia right? you are totally missing the point taking this too far more political. The point is that THERE IS PARLIAMENT TO MAKE DESITIONS, FOR ANY NATIONAL OR PUBLIC MATTER, AND NOONE CAN MAKE DECISSIONS LIKE THIS with out TAKING THIS THERE FIRST FOR TO BE DECIDED.

I I have visited Bulgaria many times mostly for snowboarding. NOONE gave me a receipt either anywhere I went , hotel, restaurants, bars, pharmacy(yes I broke my ribs) so if you are saying that you live in a healthy system look around you again my friend.

BTW reading your post again. IAM NOT AN ERT EMPLOYEE my friend, Iam a self employed person and pay my taxes, and Iam not even working inside the Greek market.
I used to be a steadicam , crane operator years back, again self employed and that's the best connection I will ever had with national TV.
So please don't make wrong conclusions.

as for your examples THOSE WERE POLITICAL FAVORS FROM THE VERY SAME PARTIES AND NOT ONLY that are now on the government. Are you suggesting that because of those salaries given 6 years ago,all technicians that were paied 1100 euro / month have to be sacked? you read and hear what they want you to hear man. I am really sorry but you are reading and getting all the wrong info. ANYHOW you missed the point totally why this thread was made so read again.
Iam not crying out to get my job back. Read above.

IF THIS IS TO TURN INTO A BUTTLE, and you guys don't see anything that interests you then I ASK THE MODERATORS TO CLOSE DOWN THE THREAD.
thank you

 

[Nick Noev]

hey dude,

you missinterpreded and drew alot of wrong conclusions. this is not personal at all. read my post again if you need to. i love greece. i go kiteboarding to limnos and lefkas whenever i can escape work. i have greek friends, etc. i'm just tired of the bullshit..

i'm saying money is a finite resource and your government has been abusing EU funding for a long time. not only your national media - every branch is atrociously corrupt on a scale that is hard to imagine. (we are talking hundreds of billions with a B) can you say D-R-A-I-N-A-G-E-e-e-e-e? thats exacly why we are seeing these radical actions being imposed on your country form Brussels. and you know this whole situation looks real silly because the people currently in power are so used to their high salaries and lavish lifestyles, and are refusing to let go. they are refusing to take responsibility. they are refusing to reform and simply secure jobs for the common hardworking people. and since reforming couldnt be done, they just pulled the plug. i know it looks really bad but enough is enough and you will see.. the people that are going to bail greece out are not going to tolerate this any longer. *khm germany* mark my words, there will be blood.

on a side note, i'm not really a patriot. while my country has beautiful nature and is currently my home, its also corrupt as shit. just look at the news. lol. so i'm not saying my country is better than yours because it isnt - thats why i never advocate for it. causa perduta. i'm saying stick to what you are good at, leave the politics for the politicians and dont open threads about this shit because i can read it in the news. i wanna open REDUSER and read about cameras, good tech info, and get professional advice about filmmaking. fair enough?

n.

 

[Björn Benckert]

Democracy is just a phase in the cycle of: Democracy, Corruption, Dictatorship, Democracy, Corruption, Dictatorship and so on.. The rest of the western world is not far behind greece in this cycle, most is at the very end of their democracy phase... To me it's quite clear that the whole EU concept is going into the next stage at the moment...

 

[constantine Tirintzis]

hey dude,

you missinterpreded and drew alot of wrong conclusions. this is not personal at all. read my post again if you need to. i love greece. i go kiteboarding to limnos and lefkas whenever i can escape work. i have greek friends, etc. i'm just tired of the bullshit..

i'm saying money is a finite resource and your government has been abusing EU funding for a long time. not only your national media - every branch is atrociously corrupt on a scale that is hard to imagine. (we are talking hundreds of billions with a B) can you say D-R-A-I-N-A-G-E-e-e-e-e? thats exacly why we are seeing these radical actions being imposed on your country form Brussels. and you know this whole situation looks real silly because the people currently in power are so used to their high salaries and lavish lifestyles, and are refusing to let go. they are refusing to take responsibility. they are refusing to reform and simply secure jobs for the common hardworking people. and since reforming couldnt be done, they just pulled the plug. i know it looks really bad but enough is enough and you will see.. the people that are going to bail greece out are not going to tolerate this any longer. *khm germany* mark my words, there will be blood.

on a side note, i'm not really a patriot. while my country has beautiful nature and is currently my home, its also corrupt as shit. just look at the news. lol. so i'm not saying my country is better than yours because it isnt - thats why i never advocate for it. causa perduta. i'm saying stick to what you are good at, leave the politics for the politicians and dont open threads about this shit because i can read it in the news. i wanna open REDUSER and read about cameras, good tech info, and get professional advice about filmmaking. fair enough?

n.

Ok fair enough then, but just so you know , your facts aren't really facts, and you still going on about huge 300k salaries, so because I don't think you know anything other than whats on the very government controllable news, I think your statements are not very valid. MANY greeks as well just because of the same reason , are now fighting against each other, because they are given this kinda info. However, Please for one more time READ AGAIN why this thread was written. I think I have explained it more than once, and why it could be a concern.
I never asked for political support of any kind or any solution, what I stated is real facts. Anyone can come and say , well maybe its not real, yeah sure, my real concern however is that many shit happens very very easily lately and people seem to start getting so used to it, inside all those conspiracies, that they wake up one day in a totally different world.
That's all.
if you think that's a thread that is meaning less and silly then no problem you can do 2 things, don't follow it, and 2 ask the moderator to erase it if you find it so disturbing, I have already asked for it since it turns into battles for one more time. It was meant to be more of telling what the real story is and not what left or right party papers write to feed the world.
In any way all cool and thanks for your thoughts.

 

[constantine Tirintzis]

Democracy is just a phase in the cycle of: Democracy, Corruption, Dictatorship, Democracy, Corruption, Dictatorship and so on.. The rest of the western world is not far behind greece in this cycle, most is at the very end of their democracy phase... To me it's quite clear that the whole EU concept is going into the next stage at the moment...

Bjorn we are not discussing what Democracy is. We all have opinions and we discuss it inside our society, friends, families, everywhere , but not in camera forums.

This was made as an informative thread about whats happening, in a similar and very related to our profession organizationthat even many of us have worked for as external technicians,, and though I admit I added a lot of politics in it which is kinda wrong, I was talking about actions being taken ILLEGALLY.

And when that happens more than 1 time it keeps happening , and one by one barriers are going down.

That's all

and thanks again for your thoughts

 

[Sergio Perez]

Democracy is just a phase in the cycle of: Democracy, Corruption, Dictatorship, Democracy, Corruption, Dictatorship and so on.. The rest of the western world is not far behind greece in this cycle, most is at the very end of their democracy phase... To me it's quite clear that the whole EU concept is going into the next stage at the moment...

Interesting thought. The way I see it, its not democracy failing here. Its the establishment. This new era of information, of the internet creates a big challenge to control information and to direct the masses. There are less and less fabricated opinion makers. The internet was "the" pandora box for the establishment. I think they will attack it first. Probably some fabricated scandals which will make for Governments to pass internet control laws, some sort of "patriotic" controls. Its all about controlling the masses. The more people know about how their leaders walk "naked" the more difficult it becomes to continue the power structure. Ultimately, good will come from this. But it will require for this to go even worse. If they keep with this austerity in Europe, the system will collapse, and the establishment will suffer. My take is that on the brink of failure,all debt will be forgiven and the establishment will be made to look like heroes- or the current elected governments in these in crisis countries. They will be made to look like heroes vs the "bad guys". But everything will be the same. A small loss of money but another 100 years of stability. Gives time to regroup and plan how to control and understand the new media channels.

 

[constantine Tirintzis]

Again I will ask the moderators to erase the thread if they in any way find this disturbing for the redusers.

Thank you.

 

[Mike Garrick]

Its a bitch the whole situation, but Greece isn't in this alone tonnes more indebtness to come.

One observation having spent the last couple of decades working in TV, neither government or private enterprise really have the answers thats why Russia has Pravda, USA has Fox ; )

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Greece has an economy comparable to Colorado in the USA. Does Colorado have a TV station with 2600 employees ?

Ouch. While I reside in the Peoples' Republic of Colorado, where we seem to enjoy our current trend of over-taxation, decimation of our civil liberties and our downward economic spiral, that comparison to Greece still hurts.

None of the TV stations here have 2600 employees... Nowhere close. I'm also willing to bet it has down-sized a bit since the 2010 census as well. There is probably nowhere near 2600 people amongst all of the TV stations and cable providers in this state. But none of these TV or cable entities are state-run, either. Greek TV is a whole different situation. Not that I'm any authority on the Greek economic crisis, but it seems that like many state-run agencies in Greece, they were employing 10 to even 100 times as many employees as necessary as part of their recent socio-economical welfare fiasco.

 

[constantine Tirintzis]

The truth is that there has been many unnecessary emploees that not also were unnecessary , because their placement were just political favors of both last 2 goverments, but also they were taking very large salaries. In fact a bunch of them would make as much as 300 -400 camera operators a year.

There were also many others that were placed there from politicians and not only they didn't work, they would be the eye of those politicians. But you will have to know that most technicians, including camera, sound, lighting, broadcast tecnicians, editors, directors,electritians, woodworkers and craftmans, as well as just about everything is needed for inner productions.,and all production teams were the low payed average stuff.

also do not forget that ERT wasn't just that, it was also 3 TV stations, 3 radios, magazine, and at least 3 orchestras , and a large historical team keeping all the history of Greek theater cinema and most important events in new Greek history. also a very large team of journalists.

In any way, NOONE said that people shouldn't be evaluated, and who ever wasn't capable of doing the job or either be a part of corruption to NOT be fired , in fact the opposite. But sacking all of the stuff , with the most illegal possible practice and close down the entire organization, calling everyone corrupted and lazy and not capable ( that was the prime ministers words) is a non acceptable practice for even the worst dictator, and those people , not only lost their jobs, but they were also heart in their dignity being treated like they were all scam.

The other thing is that they now want to control 100% the new public TV, as this government said they could not be heard thru the old TV (what a lot of BS)

SO QUESS NOW WHAT and who they are going to employ and with what criteria as its the minister of economics him self that will do this job. In other words they just replace 5-10% corruption with a brand new 100% corruption, including the new Digital platform company DIGEA, that now has no competitor ( ERT WAS NO1 competitor for the digital platform) and its a lot of money involved on this deal as well. As you understand, its a very complex and even more corrupted system, using a direct method to give 2600 victims to TROIKA request, while there is another 8000 to follow, from
just about any public company or organization, to be privatized and of course that means more unemployment, and worst and more expensive services.

There is no privet company that can agree to buy a public organization or company just to serve the public, other than get as much profit as possible with out investing 1 euro if possible.
So if we let this happen as easy, then everything will collapse so fast, that it will be nothing here to look for.

Thanks Jeff

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

You can't compare a state like Colorado which benefits from the entire English speaking world's infrastructure to a small country with a unique language. If you want greek TV, movies or news you have to make it in greece... there aren't a dozen colonies on another continent. Colorado can simply rebroadcast news from New York and it's already in English. If you want greek news you have to create a whole greek news organization etc.

There's also 11 million people in greece vs 5 million in Colorado.

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

Constantine, seems like a perfect time to re-define τῆλεvison.

 

[constantine Tirintzis]

hm yeah and probably a good time to re-define just about everything ..

at the same time we talk about this, and even so the Council of state ordered to re-open the ERT tv to its previous working state, until a new public tv channel takes its place, the government does not give back the transmition points , nor allow the telephone company OTE, which is partly privatized , to open up phone communications.

ERT is broadcasting thru various sources on the internet, and EBU is there to broadcast the program as well helping this out.

At the same time Government keeps breaking every possible legal barrier continuing their story. Very funny thngs happen inside the Parliament as well, Right party refuses to even talk about voting to make a conclusion.

Never seen anything like this in my entire life and Iam already 48 .

thanks

 

[paulherrin]

money is a finite resource

fiat: money without intrinsic value

constantine, appreciate all your information and it really is a difficult and sad situation, one piece to the overarching political and economic puzzle - let's let this discussion play out in a dialectical approach, we'll all gain some perspective that way - no need to police the thread.

bjorn, i don't necessarily disagree, but i'm not sure that cycle is established or destined.

sergio, sounds like we're on the same page. i think some kind of global 'forgiveness' is in order. hopefully we're wrong to be completely cynical about its implications. perhaps we'll see a year of jubilee.

let's do try to be moderate and minimize bickering and ranting and shouting... decorum in the greek forum