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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

NAB13- Dragon Sensor Upgrade Program begins

Eric Haase said:
90 days doesn't really send the message that RED believes in its product or manufacturing. I'm still going to do the upgrade but strongly believe RED should get behind their product with a 1 year warranty for no additional charge. I'm happy to pay for anything beyond.
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+1 for a one year warranty on the Dragon
 
Antony Newman said:
Graeme@Red,

I'd like to buy some NAB 'priced high CRI LED (remote phosphor) lighting.

Which do you think the Dragon sensor would most like a scene bathed in:

+) 5600K light (with an extended CRI of 93) or
+) 3200K light (with an extended CRI of 98)

Thanks,
AJ
Click to expand...


I thought all sensor likes something around 5000k, is it not? Now 98 cri is better than 93 but I would take daylight
 
Antony Newman said:
Graeme@Red,

I'd like to buy some NAB 'priced high CRI LED (remote phosphor) lighting.

Which do you think the Dragon sensor would most like a scene bathed in:

+) 5600K light (with an extended CRI of 93) or
+) 3200K light (with an extended CRI of 98)

Thanks,
AJ
Click to expand...


Antony, even so Graeme, rightfully so, can't really give an answer prior testing, I will adventure and say that Dragon will do well on both the 3200k and the 5600k as does the MX sensor of both the RGB and Monochrome Brains, however I am most positive that since the 5600k always has better clearer and most pleasing skin tonalities on this Cmos sensor, will be the same with the Dragon, were with Dragon higher Dynamic range and higher sensitivity will allow for dimmer light sources making the Soft lighting even better and will held better results in a direct manner of use vs. the current MX Sensor.

Please do however keep in mind that this are my tough and opinion based on what we know of the Dragon sensor and what we have been seen on th eMX sensor in this past years of shooting with different light fixtures.


Any ways, I stopped using 3200k all together since moved to th eEpic, and now I only use 5600k in all my shoots, no matter day or night indoors or outdoors, and I love the looks I get, despite having some times other lights in the mix which are all over the place as far as temperature ranging form 2200k up to 8000k.
 
Can't seem to get the Dragon Upgrade to come up when I log in.

Upgrading an Epic-X.

Says "You currently have no serial numbers eligible for this program."

Am I missing secret code or gesture towards my screen?
 
Charles Bergquist said:
Can't seem to get the Dragon Upgrade to come up when I log in.

Upgrading an Epic-X.

Says "You currently have no serial numbers eligible for this program."

Am I missing secret code or gesture towards my screen?
Click to expand...

Same here for our X - patience is probably all thats required...
 
Chill out? Really? There's no time anywhere I can see, so it was a general question to help me out.

To put it in perspective; I wrote that at 4:56pm my time, in the hope that someone would know what time I'd need to stay by the computer for. It's now nearly 1am, at 4:56 I WAS chilled. Now I'm tired, and would STILL like to know, so I can go back to bed if there's 5 hours sleep to be had.

Now, go copy/paste some more quotes, it's very helpful....
 
Brian Boyer said:
Now it's pretty evident you're arguing just to be arguing.

1) First you talk about how awesome the Scarlet is then you turn right around and rant about how nobody can tell the difference between 2K and 4K. What the hell did you buy a Scarlet for?

2) RED is desperate to convince people to buy a camera they don't need, huh? Be happy with your camera, you say? Then why do you care so much if the Scarlet Dragon is upgradeable and why are you bitching about upgrades at all?

3) How exactly did RED fail in 2010? They didn't attract the big fish (I'm assuming you didn't mean to add the word "not" in that sentence)? How much bigger than Peter Jackson, Ridley Scott, Steven Soderbergh, David Fincher, THe Hughes Brothers, Guillermo del Toro, Michael Bay (as much as I hate to say it), etc. do you have to be? However bad their failure was it didn't stop you from buying a Scarlet did it? If RED fails like they did before they'll be crying all the way to the bank.

3) They didn't say the Scarlet trade-in would be the original price. RED has always been clear that was a one-time deal. Jarred said they would probably offer a trade-in program "MUCH LIKE" the R1 program. I think you saw what you wanted to see.

It's pretty obvious to everyone but you that RED has long since moved away from being the 3K for $3K company. Their first camera was $17,500. Is that really "little guy" territory? Yes, they took a stab at the camera for the financially challenged but they steadily moved away from that model before Scarlet was ever released.

Blackmagic Design has a 4K camera for $3,995 and I'm pretty sure they're licensing a pre-existing sensor from someone else like they did with the original BMCC to help keep costs down.

When you realistically compare that to developing your own custom sensors and boards with the goal of producing the most advanced, commercially available camera on the market, it should be easy to see that RED can't be in the bargain basement camera game.

You basically want RED to upgrade your Scarlet MX to Scarlet Dragon for the price of what another company charges for off-the-shelf components and an open, raw capture file format.

They've always been the bang-for-the-buck camera company but it's always been a) compared to the rest of the competition and b) with the assumption that you had SOME bucks to spend commensurate to getting leading edge technology.
Click to expand...

1) I didn't buy Scarlet for 4k, i bought it because it produced a great image, and was told it would be an upgradeable body. Most people wouldn't be able to tell the difference between 2k and 4k or 6k, depending on the quality of the image. ARRI put up a 4k TV in their booth in NAB this year and did side by side comparisons of their 2k vs everyone else's 4k and 5k. Guess who had the image that looked the most like 35MM film?

2) RED isn't so desperate-- it's the camera industry as a whole pushing us to buy into something we don't need right now. I heard RED tell everyone- it's all going 4k. Guess what, we already all have 4k here with our REDs- Scarlet and Epic. Now I need to spend 20% more than the cost of the entire camera to upgrade to 5k? With that idiotic pricing logic, the 24K RED Epic Dragon will be upgradeable with a new sensor in 2015 for 29K. "Yes, we're upgradeable, but the upgrade costs more than 20% of the camera." -- With upgrade prices costing more that the camera as a whole- you may as well be Sony, and sell us new camera. You don't agree? It cost 19K for Scarlet owners to upgrade to Epic Dragon- and you only get a 90 day warranty. The new camera is only 24K- and you can get a 2 yr warranty on your amex card for free. That means the true cost difference between the two cameras isn't $5,000- it's more like $2,500. I'd pay $2,500 for a two warranty- wouldn't you. So that's RED's great upgradeable camera idea? Turn in your old camera that we're selling for 8K new, and will give you $2,500 off your purchase of a new camera: 5K minus $2,500 (for almost no warranty)- and, buy the way, you have to give up your old camera? That's not an upgradeable camera-- that's worse then Sony just making your old camera obsolete. At least Sony isn't pretending to be offering something they're not.

3) They said you could exchange your Scarlet for what you paid, towards the Epic Dragon upgrade. Now they're saying it's 5k, with no real warranty past 90 days, which is equal to $2,500. give us back your Scarlet and will give you a $2,500 rebate on your new RED, and than we'll refurbish your RED, stick a dragon sensor in it, and sell it for $10k next yr. Thanks for playing, sorry if you're having trouble walking.

4) It's not obvious to me that RED was moving away from the smaller Indie filmmaker prices. They sold me a perfectly fair $13K package camera which is expensive for us smaller folk, but doable. Especially because we were told the camera wouldn't be obsolete bc it will always be upgradeable. Now the upgrade price is 20% more than the cost of the original camera. That's crazy, and not an upgrade program.

Imagine if Apple sold you a $5,000 laptop, telling you that this new laptop is worth it, because the chip set is always upgradeable. You say it's pricey, but b/c it's upgradeable you decide sure- i'll buy into it. A year later, Apple says the new upgradeable chip is in, but it costs $5000 to upgrade, and btw, you can never upgrade after. "Wow, really, that's what I paid for the entire computer?" "Yes, but that's not all. For the $5k upgrade, you only get limited use of this new upgraded processor. We figured out a way to limit the speed of the new chip in your computer. If you really want the full potential of the new chip we're offering- it's $10,000." "But apple, we can't really afford $10,000 for a new laptop.- we're indy filmmakers that bought into your laptop idea b/c it was fairly priced before." "No worries, Apple will take back you're old computer for $3,000 and put it towards the price of the $10K computer, but you only get a 90 day warranty on the new computer... and buy the way, the computer you give us for $3,000, still sells for 5k on our website" "But that doesn't sound like an upgradeable computer at all-- we thought on a $5,000 computer, the upgrade would only be 1k or 2k, not double the price of the computer." "lol, of course it isn't- but our fan base is so deluded, we can charge them double the amount of the computer to upgrade--- and even after we screw them, they still love us."

5) RED didn't fail in 2010-- they had huge success getting tens of thousands of new, indie filmmakers to buy into their somewhat expensive cameras. But RED thought because they were making digital cameras since 2006, than when people moved off of 35mm film, they'd go to RED. Didn't happen. The fully upgradeable Alexa came out in 2010, and has been the digital camera of choice amongst cinematographers, production houses, and large studios. ARRI Alexa is the Ferrari of the digital film world. RED makes a great corvette, that goes even faster than the Alexa. But it's not all about speed. ARRI proved at NAB this year that top speed doesn't win races.

Sadly, chasing that dream of being the ferrari of the film world- to the 1000 people they want using their cameras-- they had to move up their price points away from us. In their mind, hollywood like's expensive cameras. RED just isn't that obtainable indie camera anymore. It certainly isn't upgradeable for a price any different then just selling us a new camera. It was all bullshit. And I don't care where BMCC gets their sensor from. Apple uses Intel chips, and third party companies make their memory. so what. I did have a whole bunch of money to spend on RED this week-- just not 10k to get a dumbed down version of a new Sensor- or $20k to get the full new sensor.

Stupidly expensive, and I'll say it again and again-- nothing any of us really need- not at that price.
 
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steve duncan said:
1) I didn't buy Scarlet for 4k, i bought it because it produced a great image, and was told it would be an upgradeable body. Most people wouldn't be able to tell the difference between 2k and 4k or 6k, depending on the quality of the image. ARRI put up a 4k TV in their booth in NAB this year and did side by side comparisons of their 2k vs everyone else's 4k and 5k. Guess who had the image that looked the most like 35MM film?

2) RED isn't so desperate-- it's the camera industry as a whole pushing us to buy into something we don't need right now. I heard RED tell everyone- it's all going 4k. Guess what, we already all have 4k here with our REDs- Scarlet and Epic. Now I need to spend 20% more than the cost of the entire camera to upgrade to 5k? With that idiotic pricing logic, the 24K RED Epic Dragon will be upgradeable with a new sensor in 2015 for 29K. "Yes, we're upgradeable, but the upgrade costs more than 20% of the camera." -- With upgrade prices costing more that the camera as a whole- you may as well be Sony, and sell us new camera. You don't agree? It cost 19K for Scarlet owners to upgrade to Epic Dragon- and you only get a 90 day warranty. The new camera is only 24K- and you can get a 2 yr warranty on your amex card for free. That means the true cost difference between the two cameras isn't $5,000- it's more like $2,500. I'd pay $2,500 for a two warranty- wouldn't you. So that's RED's great upgradeable camera idea? Turn in your old camera that we're selling for 8K new, and will give you $2,500 off your purchase of a new camera: 5K minus $2,500 (for almost no warranty)- and, buy the way, you have to give up your old camera? That's not an upgradeable camera-- that's worse then Sony just making your old camera obsolete. At least Sony isn't pretending to be offering something they're not.

3) They said you could exchange your Scarlet for what you paid, towards the Epic Dragon upgrade. Now they're saying it's 5k, with no real warranty past 90 days. If you were to buy the new dragon epic at 24k and get a 2 yr warranty - I'd say the 5k they're giving you, is really more like $2,500. That's RED's great upgrade program-- give us back your Scarlet and will give you a $2,500 rebate on your new RED, and than we'll refurbish your RED, stick a dragon sensor in it, and sell it for $10k next yr. Thanks for playing, sorry if you're having trouble walking.

4) It's not obvious to me that RED was moving away from the smaller Indie filmmaker prices. They sold me a perfectly fair $13K package camera which is expensive for us smaller folk, but doable. Especially because we were told the camera wouldn't be obsolete bc it will always be upgradeable. Now the upgrade price is 20% more than the cost of the original camera. That's crazy, and not an upgrade program.

Imagine if Apple sold you a $5,000 laptop, telling you that this new laptop is worth it, because the chip set is always upgradeable. You say it's pricey, but b/c it's upgradeable you decide sure- i'll buy into it. Two years later, Apple says the new upgradeable chip is in, but it costs $5000 to upgrade, and btw, you can never upgrade after. "Wow, really, that's what I paid for the entire computer?" "Yes, but that's not all. For the $5k upgrade, you only get limited use of this new upgraded processor. We figured out a way to limit the speed of the new chip in your computer. If you really want the full potential of the new chip we're offering- it's $10,000." "But apple, we can't really afford $10,000 for a new laptop.- we're indy filmmakers that bought into your laptop idea b/c it was fairly priced before." "No worries, Apple will take back you're old computer for $3,000 and put it towards the price of the $10K computer, but you only get a 90 day warranty on the new computer... and buy the way, the computer you give us for $3,000, still sells for 5k on our website" "But that doesn't sound like an upgradeable computer at all-- we thought on a $5,000 computer, the upgrade would only be 1k or 2k, not double the price of the computer." "lol, of course it isn't- but our fan base is so deluded, we can charge them double the amount of the computer to upgrade--- and even after we screw them, they still love us."

5) RED didn't fail in 2010-- they had huge success getting tens of thousands of new, indie filmmakers to buy into their somewhat expensive cameras. Now RED thought because they were making digital cameras since 2006, than when people moved off of 35mm film, they'd go to RED. Didn't happen. The fully upgradeable Alexa came out, and has been the digital camera of choice amongst cinematographers, production houses, and large studios. ARRI Alexa is the Ferrari of the film world. RED makes a great corvette, that goes even faster than the Alexa. But it's not all about speed. ARRI proved at NAB this year that top speed doesn't win races.

Sadly, chasing that dream of being the ferrari of the film world- to the 1000 people they want using their cameras-- they had to move up their price points away from us. In their mind, hollwood like's expensive cameras. RED just isn't that obtainable indie camera anymore. It certainly isn't upgradeable for a price any different then just selling us a new camera. It was all bullshit. And I don't care where BMCC gets their sensor from. Apple uses Intel chips, and third party companies make their memory. so what. I did have a whole bunch of money to spend on RED this week-- just not 10k to get a dumbed down version of a new Sensor- or $20k to get the full new sensor. Stupidly expensive, and I'll say it again and again-- nothing any of us really need.
Click to expand...

Scarlet-X still is an affordable camera. You said it yourself. It produces a great image. There's nothing bad/wrong/mediocre about the Scarlet; it's an awesome indie film tool. RED is most definitely that 'obtainable indie camera' still. They have also most definitely not tried to push for the more expensive market, in fact lately they're doing the opposite. They've lowered their prices like twice since I bought one of my Epics 4 months ago. Scarlet is still great, they've simply offered an upgrade option for those that want to move up to Epic, or Epic Dragon.

I know people say this a lot but it's true: Don't worry about it, shoot stuff. You still own an awesome camera made by an awesome company who have changed the landscape of filmmaking, and hammered some very considerably sized nails in the coffin of film stock. Be proud of it, and enjoy filmmaking, or TVCs or Music Videos, or whatever you shoot. Camera upgrades and new pricing etc are not storytelling, and we're all about storytelling right?
 
Julio Quintana said:
Sorry to interrupt the bitch-fest, but has anyone had any luck ordering the non-early adopter Epic-X Dragon upgrade this morning? I've been refreshing the store web page for over an hour.
Click to expand...

No dice here man. In the same boat. I did notice that the page says - down the bottom in the paragraph of text - that you'll get an email
 
Julio Quintana said:
Sorry to interrupt the bitch-fest, but has anyone had any luck ordering the non-early adopter Epic-X Dragon upgrade this morning? I've been refreshing the store web page for over an hour.
Click to expand...

I'm literally doing the same since 9am (California time). No change so far...
 
Scott Summers said:
No dice here man. In the same boat. I did notice that the page says - down the bottom in the paragraph of text - that you'll get an email
Click to expand...

I got the email hours after things opened up for early adopters. Keep refreshing... it could put you days earlier in line. '-)
 
EPIC X DRAGON upgrade

EPIC X DRAGON upgrade

I got the email hours after things opened up for early adopters. Keep refreshing... it could put you days earlier in line. '
Click to expand...

+1

Harcharan
 
Elsie N said:
I got the email hours after things opened up for early adopters. Keep refreshing... it could put you days earlier in line. '-)
Click to expand...

OH CRAP REALLY? dammit back to refreshing. It's 1:27 am here

D:
 
Does anyone know how to 'auto' refresh in google chrome...

Harcharan
 
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