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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

NAB 2014 - SCARLET DRAGON

Technology always bring prices down. The Red One went down in price, The Epic went down in price, and every other technology based product eventually drops in price. TVs, cameras, and computers have all improved in quality yet dropped in price. Even though, I still believe that Red provides the best quality cameras, 4K cameras are now available by so many different companies now that Red has to keep their prices competitive to continue to sell. Right now the demand is very high, but Red is smart to price and plan for the future with the market being flooded with 4K cameras. In fact, even lower quality cameras like GoPro and cell phones offer 4K resolution now at a fraction of the price. Don't get me wrong, GoPros and cell phones lack so much of what Red cams offer, and though Red started the 4K trend, camera manufacturers like Sony, Blackmagic, Canon, Panasonic, JVC, and others are trying to offer some high resolution alternatives with some of their lower priced cameras. Red has to keep their prices competitive, especially with so many established camera manufacturers jumping into the 4K game. Red actually cares about their customers and I'm sure they care about the rental companies that purchase their cameras, but they have to base their business model on the current trends and prices in technology. This is like telling movie studios and theaters that they should have considered their pricing model to protect movie rental companies like Blockbuster or Hollywood Video. It didn't happen and both of these movie rental companies went out of business because technology and trends changed over the years. This isn't saying that camera rental houses are going to go out of business, but as technology improves, prices tend to drop, and that is just a simple fact of working in this industry. In fact, one of the only industries that seems to buck this trend is the oil industry. As technology and supply has improved their prices have increased and remained high, because they use collusion instead of competition for their pricing and unlike cameras, gas is a necessity.
 
Lets all take a quick moment and remember that the Scarlet doing 5K will provide a very noticeable improvement on a 4K finish. And the 5K crop from the 6K sensor holds some nice benefits too, if I recall correctly something Phil said. And Scarlet's higher framerates have now jumped to being very viable for slow motion in HD finishes. Oh, and the Dragon sensor is filled with goodies too, hey. I have no clue why anyone is disappointed by the news on this camera, upgraded or new.
 
Brooklyn M. Juliana said:
Lets all take a quick moment and remember that the Scarlet doing 5K will provide a very noticeable improvement on a 4K finish. And the 5K crop from the 6K sensor holds some nice benefits too, if I recall correctly something Phil said. And Scarlet's higher framerates have now jumped to being very viable for slow motion in HD finishes. Oh, and the Dragon sensor is filled with goodies too, hey. I have no clue why anyone is disappointed by the news on this camera, upgraded or new.
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+1 :)
 
Rogelio Salinas said:
Technology always bring prices down. The Red One went down in price, The Epic went down in price, and every other technology based product eventually drops in price. TVs, cameras, and computers have all improved in quality yet dropped in price. Even though, I still believe that Red provides the best quality cameras, 4K cameras are now available by so many different companies now that Red has to keep their prices competitive to continue to sell. Right now the demand is very high, but Red is smart to price and plan for the future with the market being flooded with 4K cameras. In fact, even lower quality cameras like GoPro and cell phones offer 4K resolution now at a fraction of the price. Don't get me wrong, GoPros and cell phones lack so much of what Red cams offer, and though Red started the 4K trend, camera manufacturers like Sony, Blackmagic, Canon, Panasonic, JVC, and others are trying to offer some high resolution alternatives with some of their lower priced cameras. Red has to keep their prices competitive, especially with so many established camera manufacturers jumping into the 4K game. Red actually cares about their customers and I'm sure they care about the rental companies that purchase their cameras, but they have to base their business model on the current trends and prices in technology. This is like telling movie studios and theaters that they should have considered their pricing model to protect movie rental companies like Blockbuster or Hollywood Video. It didn't happen and both of these movie rental companies went out of business because technology and trends changed over the years. This isn't saying that camera rental houses are going to go out of business, but as technology improves, prices tend to drop, and that is just a simple fact of working in this industry. In fact, one of the only industries that seems to buck this trend is the oil industry. As technology and supply has improved their prices have increased and remained high, because they use collusion instead of competition for their pricing and unlike cameras, gas is a necessity.
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Have you seen the price of the Amira? It don't do 4k either! My point is I don't think Arri and Red are worried about cell phones shooing 4k.. same with black magic 4k camera or cion or URSA or anything you can think of.. different market segments with different expectations. people buying red, arri, f5, c500 want the top quality, and you won't ever get the top quality out of a go pro or cell phone. not all 4k is equal, shity compression and aliasing, banding, black suns, all this stuff still counts no matter the pixel count at the end of the day. idc if someone has a 4k camera for a dollar, a bad image is a bad image. like Gunleik said its the signal that counts
 
I guess the price question is more about the difference between the epic brain and the scarlet dragon brain. I have a scarlet. I pay 9500$. If i went for the epic upgrade, i now own a 17500$ camera, if i went for the scarlet dragon upgrade, I own a 14500$ camera.
 
Rob,

I really don't think you have anything to worry about. The Scarlet Dragon and the Epic Dragon are almost in 2 completely different markets. I see the Scarlet aimed at the indie owner/operator market, while the Epic is aimed at the high end movies and rental houses. I have never rented out my Scarlet, and I don't plan to. (I have used it in a "trade" before, but not for $$.)

While I think the Scarlet Dragon is a shot across the Alexa's bow, I don't think it will be in the rental market very often.
 
Can you use a speedbooster on a scarlet w/ canon mount?
 
@ Sam
In regards to $17.5K Epic and $14.5K Scarlet D. The other way to look at its only $3K difference between the 2. Plus New Epic you will not be able re-sell at the original price.
 
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I was looking at and comparing the specs for Scarlet Dragon Upgrade and the specs for Scarlet Dragon. The specs are different, and I was wondering why. In the upgrade (www.red.com) it says the sensor size 25.6mm (h) x 13.5mm (v) and ACTIVE PIXEL ARRAY: 5120 (h) x 2700 (v). Now here it says Scarlet D can shoot 6K (12fps). I'm assuming the sensor size is the same for Scarlet D and Epic D, but the specs seem to be different/lesser for the Scarlet D Upgrade. True?
 
Its all about what you can afford, I still think that Alexa makes the best motion picture in look and feel, but it coast an arm, and then we have Epic, and it sure makes great picture (Im an Epic fan and have own an MX & Epic) but when all come to all if I had the money I will choose Arri, if you are not blind you can see the difference, big time, I was not that impressed with the yesterday dessert movie, but hey Im from Europe, and we got another style & feel, a good camera will never be cheep, so keep up the good works, and focus on look instead of mega pixels :)

Cheers

U
 
Mike Garrick said:
@ Sam
In regards to $17.5K Epic and $14.5K Scarlet D. The other way to look at its only $3K difference between the 2. Plus New Epic you will not be able re-sell at the original price.
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I think the higher DR of the Dragon Scarlet, and fact Dragon Scarlet has acceptable slowmo at 5K, makes it a touch decision btw it and Epic MX. Advantage of going to Epic MX is you could still upgrade later to Epic Dragon.
 
They probably just haven't updated that particular part of the site. The new specs are certainly going to be the same for both upgrade and new.
 
Sorry if this is a redundant question...but I could not believe it...does FF in all resolutions mean that the FOV stays the same? In other words...does the Scarlet Dragon, in fact, have the same FOV as the Epic Dragon? Again, sorry if this is redundant...or a silly question...I just could not believe it if it were true. That would be insane. Can anyone confirm this form me. Thanks.
 
Michael Jarvis said:
Sorry if this is a redundant question...but I could not believe it...does FF in all resolutions mean that the FOV stays the same? In other words...does the Scarlet Dragon, in fact, have the same FOV as the Epic Dragon? Again, sorry if this is redundant...or a silly question...I just could not believe it if it were true. That would be insane. Can anyone confirm this form me. Thanks.
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No FF just means "full" 5K, as opposed to 16:9 HD 5K or WS 5K.

Scarlet Dragon cannot do 6K 23.98, and can only get a 6K FOV at 12fps.
 
Thanks Nick...so when you bump down the resolution to over crank...does the FOV stay the same? I am assuming that it does not. Only have high hopes. That would be awesome...but unlikely.
 
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I just have to say that I was doing pretty good with keeping the upgrade out of my mind... I'm going to need Reduser Anonymous meetings now to stay on the waggon!
 
Rogelio Salinas said:
Technology always bring prices down. The Red One went down in price, The Epic went down in price, and every other technology based product eventually drops in price. TVs, cameras, and computers have all improved in quality yet dropped in price. Even though, I still believe that Red provides the best quality cameras, 4K cameras are now available by so many different companies now that Red has to keep their prices competitive to continue to sell. Right now the demand is very high, but Red is smart to price and plan for the future with the market being flooded with 4K cameras. In fact, even lower quality cameras like GoPro and cell phones offer 4K resolution now at a fraction of the price. Don't get me wrong, GoPros and cell phones lack so much of what Red cams offer, and though Red started the 4K trend, camera manufacturers like Sony, Blackmagic, Canon, Panasonic, JVC, and others are trying to offer some high resolution alternatives with some of their lower priced cameras. Red has to keep their prices competitive, especially with so many established camera manufacturers jumping into the 4K game. Red actually cares about their customers and I'm sure they care about the rental companies that purchase their cameras, but they have to base their business model on the current trends and prices in technology. This is like telling movie studios and theaters that they should have considered their pricing model to protect movie rental companies like Blockbuster or Hollywood Video. It didn't happen and both of these movie rental companies went out of business because technology and trends changed over the years. This isn't saying that camera rental houses are going to go out of business, but as technology improves, prices tend to drop, and that is just a simple fact of working in this industry. In fact, one of the only industries that seems to buck this trend is the oil industry. As technology and supply has improved their prices have increased and remained high, because they use collusion instead of competition for their pricing and unlike cameras, gas is a necessity.
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I disagree. CHeaper price does not mean more sales in a simplistic manner, and can often just cheapen your brand and make it be perceived as less capable. Hagen Daz would not sell more ice cream if it cost the same as the Wallmart house brand. DPs that charge $100 per day do not work more often than those who charge $3000, even if they both had the same level of talent.

I probably spoke poorly earlier, but what upsets me about this is that Scarlet seems closer to Epic now is performance, maybe too close - it covers many more of the bases that are really needed day to day - and I am concerned that this would hurt the ability of those who have invested in Epic to to recoup that investment.

It also appears that Scarlet Dragon buyers might have Dragon access before Epic up-graders. I am all for mild socialism, but this - if it turns out to be true (and I could be wrong) - would give preferential treatment to those who spend less and joined the Red family last, which does not seem all that fair. It would also have my rental clients looking elsewhere to get what they want instead of continuing to rely on us for their Red rental needs, which would not be awesome.

But we shall see….
 
Can you use a speedbooster on a scarlet w/ canon mount to achieve a wider fov?
 
Jake Wilganowski said:
Can you use a speedbooster on a scarlet w/ canon mount to achieve a wider fov?
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I don't think a speedbooster exists in Canon Mount. There is some very complicated math with an EOS mount that I believe has so far been difficult to overcome.
 
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