Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

NAB 2014 - DRAGONcolor and REDgamma 4

The plugin is already updated, you can download it at the download page! Just put some old scarlet footage trough Cine with DC en gamm4 my god! I love it!
 
Patrick Grossien said:
You just made one german reduser a very happy camper - again. Even if the high fps burst never happens, hearing and knowing that you are still trying is all we can ask for. Thank you for being open on this. This should finally calm the whole debate :)
Click to expand...
There is not just one happy german reduser. ;)

Thanks Jarred for those words. And they remind me very much of something Jim would have said. Hehe.
 
Patrick Grossien said:
Colm, what do you mean? redlogfilm exists. it's just a log interpretation of the RAW data. this is not in direct relation to redgamma4 but rather instead of it.
Click to expand...

I haven't had a chance to play with redgamma4 but even with it's better highlight roll off I would assume you will lose some stops in the highlights compared to when you set the raw file to redlogfilm, so if that is the case when you grade your footage, you will change the raw file to redlogfilm as your initial grading step, makes sense as you want to see the most dynamic range the camera can offer. Ideally then on your top most layer or node you would add a redlogfilm to redgamma4 lut, this will show you how the red would like you to see their red camera images, this is the best starting point. If you are setup like this then you still have access to the highlight information in the redlogfile, you can add grading nodes before your redlogfilm to redgamma4 lut.
If red don't provide this then either people grade with a starting point of redgamma4, potentially losing highlight information or they grade using redlogfilm, with their own gamma curve, with a lot of potential for people to mess up the gamma when grading redlogfilm.
If I was red I would want my customers to have a redlogfilm to redgamma4 lut so as not to mess it up, or to least give users who arn't as proficient at grading a good starting point, just like arri do with their lut generator.
 
I don't know if anyone has timed the new blackshading, but I just did and it took about 6 minutes on my dragon. That's less than half the time it took on the previous builds.
 
Colm O'Rourke said:
I haven't had a chance to play with redgamma4 but even with it's better highlight roll off I would assume you will lose some stops in the highlights compared to when you set the raw file to redlogfilm, so if that is the case when you grade your footage, you will change the raw file to redlogfilm as your initial grading step, makes sense as you want to see the most dynamic range the camera can offer. Ideally then on your top most layer or node you would add a redlogfilm to redgamma4 lut, this will show you how the red would like you to see their red camera images, this is the best starting point. If you are setup like this then you still have access to the highlight information in the redlogfile, you can add grading nodes before your redlogfilm to redgamma4 lut.
If red don't provide this then either people grade with a starting point of redgamma4, potentially losing highlight information or they grade using redlogfilm, with their own gamma curve, with a lot of potential for people to mess up the gamma when grading redlogfilm.
If I was red I would want my customers to have a redlogfilm to redgamma4 lut so as not to mess it up, or to least give users who arn't as proficient at grading a good starting point, just like arri do with their lut generator.
Click to expand...

You're still misunderstanding. Whether you set the gamma to RedLogFilm or RedGamma4, all of the information is still present. It's just interpreted differently. But if you open the R3D in DaVinci, or Premiere, or FCPX, or anywhere else that reads R3Ds natively, it still has access to all of that information.

If you want to use the workflow as you describe it, the answer is to simply set your clips to be interpreted under RedGamma4. You would gain nothing by setting them to RedLogFilm and then using a RLF->RG4 lut. In fact, such a thing might actually lose you data and fidelity.
 
nick,

that is not entirely the case.

In resolve, if you grade from redlogfilm with a 3rd party LUT (Nick shaw´s), you can push around your highlights a lot more, without them going "grey/dull", compared to just setting your r3d to display redgamma3.

a lot of us have been asking for an official LUT from red, for years. - just like Arri provides.
 
Sidney L. Plaut said:
nick,

that is not entirely the case.

In resolve, if you grade from redlogfilm with a 3rd party LUT (Nick shaw´s), you can push around your highlights a lot more, without them going "grey/dull", compared to just setting your r3d to display redgamma3.

a lot of us have been asking for an official LUT from red, for years. - just like Arri provides.
Click to expand...

Which is silly to me. RedLogFilm works with any LUT designed to work with Log footage. Which is most of them. People are constantly trying to make their footage look good, but also unique. If everyone is using one, single, Red-created LUT, that kind of eliminates the differential.

The best use of the ArriLog to Rec709 LUT, is for on-set viewing.

Which is exactly what RedGamma4 is designed for. On-set viewing. Of course you can shorthand a workflow and use RedGamma4 for your final output, but Red has always stated that the absolute best results out start with RedLogFilm, precisely because of how much history there is working with Log footage.
 
Nick Pasquariello said:
You're still misunderstanding. Whether you set the gamma to RedLogFilm or RedGamma4, all of the information is still present. It's just interpreted differently. But if you open the R3D in DaVinci, or Premiere, or FCPX, or anywhere else that reads R3Ds natively, it still has access to all of that information.

If you want to use the workflow as you describe it, the answer is to simply set your clips to be interpreted under RedGamma4. You would gain nothing by setting them to RedLogFilm and then using a RLF->RG4 lut. In fact, such a thing might actually lose you data and fidelity.
Click to expand...


Yes you do have access to all the information but with redlogfilm you do gain a better workflow. it is much easier to retrieve highlight information when your gamma is set to redlogfilm. I don't know how you would lose data and fidelity. Your still grading in raw, all the information is still there for you to retrieve. I would place a fairly large bet that 99% of features shot on red where graded from redlogfilm as a starting point.
 
Colm O'Rourke said:
Yes you do have access to all the information but with redlogfilm you do gain a better workflow. it is much easier to retrieve highlight information when your gamma is set to redlogfilm. I don't know how you would lose data and fidelity. Your still grading in raw, all the information is still there for you to retrieve. I would place a fairly large bet that 99% of features shot on red where graded from redlogfilm as a starting point.
Click to expand...

What I mean, is that by starting with RedLogFilm, and then applying a RLF->RG4 Lut, and THEN grading, you're losing fidelity. If you're applying the RLF-RG4 Lut after your grade (standard workflow), well, there are better LUTs out there, and a lot more options, rather than trying to create a standard one-size-fits-all LUT.

RLF is there for grading. RG4 is there for on-set and for through-editorial. I don't see anything gained by creating a RLF->RG4 LUT.
 
well first, anybody doing cc should be able to match to rg4, and the only real situation where that needs to happen is if someone is grading using rg4 as the starting point and wants to match vfx stuff that went rlf. it is also nice for vfx to have previewing. in those cases roll your own or get one from someone who has. but the reality is that rlf is the way many grades go and it involves more than a gamma curve in any case. sure it wouldn't hurt to have one officially, but I don't think the folks asking for that understand the workflow very well... no offense
 
Nick Pasquariello said:
Which is silly to me. RedLogFilm works with any LUT designed to work with Log footage. Which is most of them. People are constantly trying to make their footage look good, but also unique. If everyone is using one, single, Red-created LUT, that kind of eliminates the differential.

The best use of the ArriLog to Rec709 LUT, is for on-set viewing.

Which is exactly what RedGamma4 is designed for. On-set viewing. Of course you can shorthand a workflow and use RedGamma4 for your final output, but Red has always stated that the absolute best results out start with RedLogFilm, precisely because of how much history there is working with Log footage.
Click to expand...

first of this is relevant when you are working as part of a team and have
tough deadlines whilst maintaining a budget.

if you grade yourself, you can take all the time in the world
to do whatever you like to make it work.

so it might be silly to you and others, but if your are
a DP or a director working with posthouses and colorists
you want to start out the grade with what the director saw
on set, but you want the maximum flexibility to push the
grade around with. meaning you need to grade "below/before"
the lut.

you dont want a colorist guessing what LUT you exposed for or gueesing
how the colors looked, and you dont want any precious time wasted
for him trying to create a LUT he thinks you like.

with alexa its easy. you apply an official arri "output" LUT to the logC and grade under
that. with RED you do what exactly?

also remember that DP's are rarely present when grading
occurs. ( in commercials and tv drama) - so its needs to be
an official LUT pref. visible within resolve or baselight etc...
 
Sidney L. Plaut said:
you dont want a colorist guessing what LUT you exposed for or gueesing
how the colors looked, and you dont want any precious time wasted
for him trying to create a LUT he thinks you like.

with alexa its easy. you apply an official arri "output" LUT to the logC and grade under
that. with RED you do what exactly?
Click to expand...

On set the Director and DP are usually looking at the current RedColor/Red Gamma, that is your LUT. That is as official as it gets. It even has Red in the name it is so official. Sometimes the gamma curve is tweaked to create a look. Whatever settings they used are recorded in the RMD, there is no guessing. If the Colorist chooses to spend the time to recreate that look, or expand upon that look starting with RedLogFilm that is his choice.

Sorry for the edits. Clarity comes with coffee. :-)
 
Last edited:
I don't mean to belittle RedColor and RedGamma or insult Graeme by reducing them to a LUT. It's a little like calling The Hulk Bruce Banner. Together they are so much more than a LUT, but they do ultimately serve the same purpose.
 
Mount Type: UNKNOWN

Mount Type: UNKNOWN

Hi all, I just upgraded to this beta firmware and it's amazing... but, I was trying to see if my new Cabrio 19-90 zoom would finally record lens metadata. I came across a screen saying my PL Mount is "UNKNOWN". Is this a bug, not enabled in the Beta, or I'm just doing something wrong? I would REALLY love the ability to record focus, lens length, and iris in the .R3D metadata for our CGI team. Thanks.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top