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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

NAB 2008 Analysis

That was a good read! :)

I agree with your assessment about the potential of Red Ray if it does what the specifications claim. While no one is prepared to say "scam" about Red any more, I expect a lot of people have enough familiarity with video compression to be sceptical.

However, even the sceptics want RED RAY, they just can't fathom how it's possible.

-Steve
 
Image different

Image different

Mezmo- examine your premises.

The argument about the compression ratio is based on existing tech and an assumption that your codec has to carry image information a certain way.

I question the hegemony of the DCI spec as digital distribution evolves.

Red Ray has a daunting engineering target but if achieved even close to it, I join the chorus who think it will have deep impact in our art.

Just sayin'
 
Great summary. Very well thought out.
 
Yes, nice summary Jeff Coatney.

This past Monday, after spending a lot of time in the RED NAB booth, and then in the evening reading through the posts on RED User, I touched briefly on some of those same points in my Post #58, on the "Nervous Nellies" thread:
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=11764&page=6

Several shots I personally shot were included in the "Shot on RED" reel you saw at the RED NAB booth. I was way happy to have them edited into that reel, and I was very proud of the work of the other cinematographers whose work was included. Also, the Soderbergh sequences were stunning...

IMO the tech specs and production possibilities for RED's announced products at NAB this year are nothing short of astounding: EPIC 5k, Scarlet, and RED Ray. I think many here are a bit numb to how much progress has been made by RED since the company was announced in late 2005. I was an invited participant at the first RED ONE camera specification think tank at Oakley headquarters in December 2005, when RED was in the dream stage - and since then RED has mushroomed into a dynamo of motion media products. What RED has accomplished since late 2005 is mind-numbing...

RED NAB progression: NAB 2006 was the defining of the initial products and concepts, NAB 2007 was the refining of the product lines, and NAB 2008 expanded and diversified the product lines outward for maximizing the utility of REDCODE - and REDCODE is definitely the heart and core of the "RED revolution".

--------------------------

Me and my associate production partners will undoubtedly be buying multiple EPIC, Scarlet, and RED Ray when each becomes available. We see endless possibilities for their use at various levels in our productions. We produce a broad range of HDTV programs, features, and other types of productions, in various genres and styles. We also produce tons of stock footage that others will use in a wide variety of their own productions.
 
steve;

The clips I saw at the Shot On Red at the Red Booth were fabulous. Great work, to you and the others cinematographers represented. Even the 2K footage from Soderbergh's first film was superb. Can't wait to get my camera.
 
In times of confusion and inflamed spirits, it's great to read such a well thought out post. Regarding Scarlet, your personal opinions on it's design, along with your very reasonable and insightful post throughout, makes me much more confident in the actual ergonomics of the camera. Afterall, who amongst all of us, won't want to get a Scarlet camera as soon as it's availiable? Same thing about redray. Wich owner of a RED camera won't want one to ease off it's workflow and delivery?

Honestly, it was a hell of a freakin' great NAB.

FreshDV's podcasts with Sony and Panasonic reps seemed like a trip back in time.
 
Thanks Jeff for the analysis.. Rapid prototyping is sweeping the landscape. Red is a prime example. Only wish, Jim would go with lighter materials such as carbon fiber.
 
Blair S. Paulsen said:
Mezmo- examine your premises.

The argument about the compression ratio is based on existing tech and an assumption that your codec has to carry image information a certain way.

I question the hegemony of the DCI spec as digital distribution evolves.

Red Ray has a daunting engineering target but if achieved even close to it, I join the chorus who think it will have deep impact in our art.

Just sayin'
Click to expand...
Hi Blair,
This RED RAY box will be great for playing back stuff on a monster LCD
back at the shop or on location, but a 4K RGB playback device feed from
a HDDVD for large venue digital exhibition....???????
This is one hell of a large rabbit out the RED hat. An OK picture maybe possible at 1080 over HDSDI, that would be a handy little box. Kill off the JH3
Mezmo
 
Great Post Jeff.

Jeff Coatney said:
Du Art, Deluxe and Technicolor's long-term outlook is questionable when you consider that RED RAY utterly kills the concept of a release print.
Click to expand...

While I'm flattered to included with the big boys, I have to set the record straight: we're not in the bulk release printing business. We're basically a filmmaker run film and digital post facility that's been dedicated to helping independent artists realize their visions since before there even was an indie movement - and that's where we're going to stay. Sure, all this great tech means many more will be doing more by themselves, and I think that's great. After all, that's why I bought a Red! But we've been in this Walmart world since the advent of miniDV and there are still filmmakers out there who want the support of seasoned colorists, sound designers, workflow managers, people who share their vision, and can help bring something to it. And for those people, we're here to help.

Jim's model is not the least bit threatening to me. Yes, the world is changing, and change is good. Especially the democratizing kind. But successful filmmaking will always be a hard one battle involving art, technology, craft and finance. It's sometimes pays to be a part of a well trained squadron. Viva la revolution! :)

(OK, now back to the regularly scheduled contents of this thread...)
 
Andy,

You obviously have seen the opportunities RED brings with it for some time. Thanks for setting me straight and I wish you and DuArt the best.
 
i'm glad that the benefits of RED RAY are beginning to sink in.. its one of those things that took a couple days to simmer in peoples minds before the "wholly crap this is special" moment came.
 
Jeff Coatney said:
Andy,

You obviously have seen the opportunities RED brings with it for some time. Thanks for setting me straight and I wish you and DuArt the best.
Click to expand...

Thanks Jeff. Frankly, it was an opportunity for shameless self promotion that I simply couldn't resist! But seriously, your post describes a future that may very well be upon us. Nicely done.
 
mezmo said:
Hi Blair,
This RED RAY box will be great for playing back stuff on a monster LCD
back at the shop or on location, but a 4K RGB playback device feed from
a HDDVD for large venue digital exhibition....???????
Click to expand...

not hddvd... dvd. excuse me, RED RAY! lol although i guess it's all the same.

and at quad SDI and quad HDMI I'd imagine it's definitly intended for large venue digital exhibition (among many other practical things)
 
Spiff said:
However, even the sceptics want RED RAY, they just can't fathom how it's possible.
Click to expand...

True. As far as I know H.264 is the most efficient widely available codec, but from what I have seen, it is not up to the task of a satisfying big-screen 4k image at DVD bitrates, not even close to it.

I am looking forward to seeing some Red Ray screenings!

(note... has anyone from Red said that Red Ray will be appropriate for big-screen viewing? Having a 4k output certainly suggests that, really even 2k would. As everyone is saying... it just seems too good to be true.)
 
Yes, I heard from multiple Red employees that large screen viewing was the intention.

How many thought shooting 4K to a compact flash card was possible a year and a half ago?

I expect the same barrier to be broken with RedRay.
 
jbeale said:
True. As far as I know H.264 is the most efficient widely available codec, but from what I have seen, it is not up to the task of a satisfying big-screen 4k image at DVD bitrates, not even close to it.
Click to expand...

H.261/H.263/H.264 are/were intended for low-bitrate streams, such as video-conferencing, and not for digital cinema, and they do a fine job for that purpose.

(H.262 is MPEG-2).

H.264 is block based; I think something that is full frame based, such as wavelets, is more appropriate for cinema projection.
 
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