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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

My take on the RED Dragon...

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danbrazda said:
The thing I hear most is along the lines of: "Where does it all stop? In two years, 8K will be the norm, then 10, 12...etc. At what point does hype/marketing surpass reality (i.e.- truly perceivable quality improvements)?" I have my answers for this but would love to hear what some of you think.
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For many of us who will never make anything that will be seen on a very large screen (and even that is affected by distance from the screen), then a 4K display is getting close to what the human eye can actually perceive... retinal resolution...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retina_Display

I have a very hard time imagining needing a sensor beyond dragon. Yes, more pixels would be nice for large prints from frame grabs. Yes, higher frame rates would be cool in very specific applications.

There is also a limit to what the human eye can perceive as far as dynamic range.

I think the future is mostly going to be about form factor and size/handling of files. Smaller cameras, smaller and lighter lenses, super easy file management and editing. Power and media as non-issues would be nice.

The main thing I want from dragon is being able to capture what I see without lighting and scrims to lighten and darken. I don't want to have to compromise and fight exposure when I see a beautiful sunrise or lake view or sun coming through the trees. I want the camera to simply capture the full range of details. I think dragon will do that or something very close to that.
 
640k of memory should be enough for anyone.
 
danbrazda said:
The thing I hear most is along the lines of: "Where does it all stop? In two years, 8K will be the norm, then 10, 12...etc. At what point does hype/marketing surpass reality (i.e.- truly perceivable quality improvements)?" I have my answers for this but would love to hear what some of you think.
Click to expand...

I think it stops where the market stops. I didn't see myself going past Epic X w/MX sensor... yet here I am in line for the Dragon. I'm pretty sure I'll be satisfied with the Dragon sensor but if what comes next convinces me it is worthwhile, I'll be lined up again.

But I'm thinking things have reached a (temporary) satisfaction point for RED as far as acquisition goes. I'm sure they will continue with R&D for bigger and better sensors because they aim way out in front of any perceived target, and then wait to see if the target and their "bullets" converge.

My guesses are that RED will turn to honing in on exhibition as their primary focus. They've already caused a stir in that regard with what has been previously announced and I wouldn't be surprised if there aren't a millipede's worth of shoes left to drop.
 
Jim,

It's really great to hear from you, it feels like it's been a while since we've heard your voice.

Jannard said:
Grab a still from the motion stream and create a billboard.
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I love this feature, it's something I've wanted since 2005. Sometimes you just get an image on a take that could sum up the movie, great work and looking forward to our upgrade in September (hopefully were in the first batch or two).
 
Thomas Koch said:
640k of memory should be enough for anyone.
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30MB on a hard drive??? whoa, that's like huge, man. A gig? Never will happen, that would be insane! Jeezus, this new 17" monitor is kick-ass!


For some of us, it won't ever stop. TV, as we currently think of it, isn't going to be as good as it can be until we can't tell the difference between what's on TV and if we were looking through a window. As for larger entertainment, I'm hoping to see something along the lines of a Star Trek Holodeck in my lifetime. Make it so. Now if only my 3D printer understood "tea, earl grey, hot..."
 
Congratulations Red!

And no, resolution can never be high enough and neither can frame rate or dynamic range :D
/Andreas
 
Andy Roberts said:
For many of us who will never make anything that will be seen on a very large screen (and even that is affected by distance from the screen), then a 4K display is getting close to what the human eye can actually perceive... retinal resolution...
Click to expand...

While I agree with you about where technology is headed. I strongly disagree with this statement. I did a local commercial in standard def a few years back, and the client decided to play it during the wait time before the previews at local theaters. I have also had a commercial go national. You never know where your footage might end up.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
30MB on a hard drive??? whoa, that's like huge, man. A gig? Never will happen, that would be insane! Jeezus, this new 17" monitor is kick-ass!


For some of us, it won't ever stop. TV, as we currently think of it, isn't going to be as good as it can be until we can't tell the difference between what's on TV and if we were looking through a window. As for larger entertainment, I'm hoping to see something along the lines of a Star Trek Holodeck in my lifetime. Make it so. Now if only my 3D printer understood "tea, earl grey, hot..."
Click to expand...

I don't want TV to look like a window - why is this an ideal? TV/ film is not just about showing us documentary reality - that is not the only goal of cinematography.

Epic at 5K is enough resolution - I'm not that excited about 6K. Can any lens I love/use even resolve anything more than 5K? Better dynamic range and better color precision is why they might get my 10K.
 
Christian Jadot said:
While I agree with you about where technology is headed. I strongly disagree with this statement. I did a local commercial in standard def a few years back, and the client decided to play it during the wait time before the previews at local theaters. I have also had a commercial go national. You never know where your footage might end up.
Click to expand...

True enough. But "rezzing up" from 4K to some future 8K theater display would look a lot better than "rezzing up" from SD to HD... my point is... 6K acquisition for 4K projects will have a longer shelf life than HD projects.
 
Robert Ruffo New said:
I don't want TV to look like a window - why is this an ideal? TV/ film is not just about showing us documentary reality - that is not the only goal of cinematography.
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I do agree with that, but with the increase in ability we have new creative avenues to explore. What if the TV is as good as a window, and yet becomes a window into an alternate reality? My exceptional vision be damned, but I still have no trouble seeing pixel structures at 4K, so bring on more resolution and detail. I know I'm not alone in that thinking.

Epic at 5K is enough resolution - I'm not that excited about 6K. Can any lens I love/use even resolve anything more than 5K? Better dynamic range and better color precision is why they might get my 10K.
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Linear pixel density on Dragon has only increased by 8% as the sensor has grown a bit larger. Sensor coverage is a much greater concern than the ability to resolve. Any optics capable of 150lp/mm or higher should be good to about 8K or more on this size of sensor.
 
Yes brilliant!

Will Keir said:
Jim,

It's really great to hear from you, it feels like it's been a while since we've heard your voice.



I love this feature, it's something I've wanted since 2005. Sometimes you just get an image on a take that could sum up the movie, great work and looking forward to our upgrade in September (hopefully were in the first batch or two).
Click to expand...
 
All this nonsense about skin tones is silly. Here is a link to a movie trailer for a movie I helped shoot WAY back in November 2007 on my RED One #63. (This was both pre MX and even Pre Ser#X for us first 100 owners.) I think this was the 2nd full length feature filmed after Che.

Sure it's a dark trailer and some of the tones are off, but we barely knew what we were doing. And in my opinion, everything looks fine and would look near perfect if we re-processed the footage with newer software. RedCine was years from being written:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=BsghoA0E0qM
 
danbrazda said:
The thing I hear most is along the lines of: "Where does it all stop? In two years, 8K will be the norm, then 10, 12...etc. At what point does hype/marketing surpass reality (i.e.- truly perceivable quality improvements)?" I have my answers for this but would love to hear what some of you think.
Click to expand...

Look out your window. Now look at any monitor. See a difference? There's room to improve. Will be for quite some time.
 
I did not have any problem whatsoever with skin tones same day I received my two Scarlet-X's. Now with the 2 Epics (from the trade-in-program) I recognize that skin tone problems are "not knowing how to use a camera/computer/software combination" problems. I shot film since age 6! Now over 50 I say finally someone did it. Could not have better skin in my opinion. Usually people hear the ones who complain more than the ones who are happy. I am beyond happy in all respects with the Reds. I actually think Red cameras are not only highly under priced but that the entire concept is by far ahead of our times.

Ken Wilson
 
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