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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

My last RED

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Lee Dashiell

Lee Dashiell

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Well…this will more than likely be my last RED. I'm not into it anymore. I like the image, like the size, but question the company. Jim says, "You bought your camera to work, so work it". I work the hell out of my EPIC. I'm still not into having the value of my gear cut in half overnight, especially by the same company that made it.

I also have a company truck, a 2011 GMC truck with a Duramax diesel. It's dependable. I can count on it to get me just about anywhere and it also allows me to be profitable. It too has value. I can guarantee you that it will have a good trade in value next year. Why? Because GMC won't sell the 2013 for half the price of the 2011. I like that…..I'll buy another.

This "Changing the world" thing is getting out of hand. A bit of advise, when you care so much for your customers, you may want to think about your current customers rather than just the new ones.

Now, all of the RED lovers who defend RED at all cost can bash away. I'm OK with that too. I think it's a little ironic that so many people go to their defense after getting screwed by them but that's how it is.

My camera purchases in the future will more than likely be with Sony or Panasonic or Arri. The arrogance of RED is too much for me to swallow again.

Have a nice day!
 
Today's cameras are more computer than camera.

The prices of computers fall, and fall dramatically, all the time.

Does it hurt? Sure it hurts. Our RED One M-X, that cost us $24,000 (not including accessories), is now priced at $4000—and we don't even have the SSD module! That hurts.

But it's just the way it is.

Stephen
 
Sony et al regularly scew their customer base - every time they release a new camera that can't be upgraded, but demand that customers pay full price for the latest kit.

Red have discounted their cameras with the knowledge that it can be upgraded to Dragon in a year or so (ie, not paying Epic prices for an entirely new camera).

To use your analogy - Red have reduced the price of their cars to make the trade in for the newer model ridiculously cheap, whereas Sony expect you to scrap your car an buy their 2013 model which is finally is up to date having ditched the 8 track
 
Two guys owned a one-truck trucking company. One day one said to the other "were losing money. What do you think we should do? The other partner said "We need more trucks." What I'm saying is by buying another Epic at the cheaper price, you bring down the cost of the one you bought at a higher price, thus reducing your perceived losses on the one, even though you are taking a small hit on the new one. To really recover the value of that first camera, buy 10. That will amortize the value of that first camera so that the amount of loss will be almost imperceptible.

EDIT: It just hit me... James Cameron bought 50 of these at the M prices IIRC. Just imagine how he feels about the price drop. It seems when you assess things, there's always someone worse off than you.
 
Aaahh, come on. We´ve gone through this with all our digital backs for still photography. We never thought about a resale value, just kept the old backs as backup just in case. Now with RED it has been more than unusual that these cameras have kept their value for such a long time and RED has been more than grateful with the Stage programs. I never experienced such offers for our digital backs. You might come to a different conclusion after your future experience with Sony or Panasonic...

Cheers, Ulf
 
Hopefully the value of your RED will go up with dragon just like the MX with the REDone.
 
Elsie N said:
EDIT: It just hit me... James Cameron bought 50 of these at the M prices IIRC. Just imagine how he feels about the price drop. It seems when you assess things, there's always someone worse off than you.
Click to expand...

(He should be more pissed off about stealing the story for Ferngully: Save the Last Rainforest ;) )
 
Lee Dashiell said:
I'm still not into having the value of my gear cut in half overnight, especially by the same company that made it.
Click to expand...

I don't understand, isn't it 30% discount?



Old price:

EPIC-X is now available on RED.com for $27,500 (brain only)

New price:

5K EPIC-X Brain- $19,000


27'500-19'000 = 8500$

= 30% discount.
 
Patrick Tresch said:
I don't understand, isn't it 30% discount?



Old price:

EPIC-X is now available on RED.com for $27,500 (brain only)

New price:

5K EPIC-X Brain- $19,000


27'500-19'000 = 8500$

= 30% discount.
Click to expand...

Epic-X brain only was $34,500 prior to the slash.
 
Lee Dashiell said:
My camera purchases in the future will more than likely be with Sony[…]. The arrogance of RED is too much for me to swallow again.
Click to expand...
Before I bought a R1, I had owned several Sony cameras. If you think that RED is arrogant, you'll be in for a huge surprize. And not the good one.
 
My thinking is that everything is going to stabilize next year. Pro consumers will have so many high end options that I think companies would be crazy to expect us to pay the old standard high end prices anymore. With the above stated, more computer than camera, I will find it hard to invest above 25k for any camera considering there is no "Betacam" standard across the board.
 
The resale value of the camera only matters when you--wait for it...wait for it...sell it. It should be worth just as much to you as a shooter now as it did when you bought it, at least in terms of its ability to perform photographically. One could argue that, with the availability of additional accessories now and in the future, it is worth more as a shooting tool. Also, with the Dragon sensor refresh, it should remain at least as salable as it was in the past to your clients, as Dragon should keep it at the forefront of available technology.

Perhaps your clients and whatever rental business you have will pressure you to lower the rates you charge for the camera, but, really, you've had plenty of time to make back your investment by now, especially if you were Stage 2. I was Stage 3 (February/March) and live in a small city in a rural midwestern state and my investment has already paid off in 8 months of Epic ownership. I was also able to recoup my investment in the R1 prior to that.

Are you trying to argue that Panasonic, Sony and Arri cameras don't lose their value in a similar way? Sorry, but it's just not true when they continue to obsolete their cameras with new models on an even more aggressive schedule. I just finished a shoot with a director who has previously shot with my R1 and Epic and would have shot with the Epic this time but was pressured by the client to shoot with the Alexa because the client got a special rental package deal on it from a friend. Why? Because the Alexa owner can see the writing on the wall and is aggressively pricing it in a desperate attempt to make back his investment before it becomes obsoleted by the forthcoming Arri.

Sorry, Lee, but this sounds like nothing more than whining and sour grapes from someone who has not been able to pay off their Epic investment over a reasonable amount of time, not to mention what it could bring in the future.
 
Bill Goehring said:
The resale value of the camera only matters when you--wait for it...wait for it...sell it.
Click to expand...

Not true at all... the sale value of the camera affects the brand perception of the camera. The brand perception of the camera affects how much people are willing to pay for it. A RED One MX selling for the same price as Canon 5D Mark III affects clients perception of the value. A good example of this is the ARRI Alexa... it's high priced and more valued. If RED hurts their brand... they also hurt my investment in their brand.
 
Especially cars do loose 1/2 their value within 3 years. At least in Europe.
You can count on it!

With red the resale value always was above that even after 3 years. So it is better.
That 8500USD discount from red old to red new pricing is not so much after all.. especially if you are 15000 in accessories that did not go down in price.
It is still in the same pricerange that it is not affordable to the average Joe.
 
°Not true at all... the resale value of the camera affects the brand perception of the camera

Wrong, this would be the only brand and camera where this applies.

Resale value of a Ferrari is worse than resale value of a US Ford! You will loose more in terms of absolute and more in terms of percentage scale.
Resale value of the best brand in the world (apple) is worse than other and less then 50% within 2 years.

Also rental prices are not tied to a 25% decline in pricing. Because availability and request is what makes the price after all.
 
Patrick Tresch said:
ok 45%...

Pat
Click to expand...
Pat, I think you were right the first time 'cause the price was ~$28,000 before Epic had a price increase before it had the recent price decrease. The price increase shows that the market would sustain an increase which apparently RED needed to recoup R&D costs... and now that they have been recouped, the price is even lower than that original price. I think us Epic X owners owe a great debt to those who bought the M cameras because that premium and volume helped make the Epic line profitable, quicker.

THANKS M OWNERS!
 
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