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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

My last RED

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Kwan Khan said:
HUmmm. So I should cancel my MEIZLER MODULE order and wait!!! (Just jokin' fellas)...

People who complain on price-drop are generally people who have not done their home work right (in a past).

Here is what I did and why (and I am glade that I did it right)
I planed for Stage 02 but When JIM announced EPIC-M (out of no where), I was super PISSED OFF (just as much as you people here)
But right after I knew that Stage 2 isn't right for me. Some how I knew that this is exactly what going to happen to REDone market (MOORE'S LAW)
I quickly withdrawal and went for Stage 03 and kept my self Busy with my RED (and waited for epic).


Simple Maths;
$17,500 credit for traded-in RED ONE + $10,500)

PL MOUNT ($2000)
SIDE SSD MODULE ($1500)
5" TOUCH LCD ($1600)
REMOTE ($550)
MODULE ADAPTOR ($1250)
PRO BATTERY MODULE ($1950)
2x REDVOLTS & DSMC TRAVEL CHARGER ($515)
Total of $7,415

$28,000 - ($17,500+ $7,415)
Once My EPIC arrived it coast me $20,585 (8 month ago).

I Kept all my REDone Accessorie. I knew My REDone will come back to me. Now I order me a REDone-MX with smile on my face + wait for dragon
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Heh heh heh.

We did almost exactly the same maths.

Only thing I *hadn't* planned for was picking up another R1 body quite so soon or quite so cheaply!

Mike
 
Hrvoje Simic said:
First example is a film camera in the era of switching to digital.
And the price is used on Ebay. Not on Arri's web.

Second example is one of pionerring 35mm digital cinema cameras, made in a transfer phase, with inadequate resolution to replace film.
And the price is used on Ebay. Not on Sony's web.



I can

...

And a third Canon example is a consumer camera and the comparison is ridiculous.
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Sony quietly ditched the rest of teir F35's at a very resonable price, just 2 months after their last selling attempt on the beast. Which was just before announcing the F65...
 
Peter Moretti said:
The point being made here is that extreme price depreciation has been the norm in technology intensive products for decades now. The most obvious being computer equipement. Well what did Jim & Co. call the Red One? A super computer w/ a lens attached. What did Jim say was digital's ace in the hole vs film? Moore's law.

NLE, VXF and coloring apps have all plummeted in price. Avids use to cost $100K+. Final Touch was $20K until it got included in FCP for free. Resolve was even much more expensive and it's free too, or close to it.

The same has happened to camera prices, as countelss examples have illustrated.

So this shouldn't come as a surprise. It's just that when it happens to you it hurts a whole heck of a lot more than when it happens to "some schmoe stupid enough" to invest over half a million dollars on Media Composer, Avid DS, Resolve and a Sony F35 only to see it lose 90% of its value.
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You are absolutely correct about extreme price depreciation being the norm in tech these days.

The others who complain about an extreme and unnecessary (in their view) price cut by a manufacturer on a product that is fairly new to the market, are also absolutely correct.

RED is absolutely correct in doing what they did given their strategic goals and corporate mission.

Those customers taking to the forum to complain about it are exercising the freedom internet tools offer and are absolutely correct in doing so.

Those who are reacting to them and ridiculing them and making vague comparisons without understanding all the various dynamics that went into this, are IMHO, wrong.

Any questions?

And all of this is, er, MY opinion. Just as useful or useless as any of yours. ;)
 
you guys are missing out on the best part of this, we can all now say that "a Red One isn't much more then the Plastic Cam!" Oh how fun it it to mock the Plastic Cam, relax and rejoice lol! One of the most talented kids in my old school just ordered a BT Red One, I am happy for him and the others! Spread the love, then steal their gigs with our Dragons next year... ps i'm kind of intoxicated, please don't fight I am just trying to spread some humor on what has as of lately been a quite depressing forum to follow with all this toxic negativity in the air from certain people...
 
Gunleik Groven said:
Sony quietly ditched the rest of teir F35's at a very resonable price, just 2 months after their last selling attempt on the beast. Which was just before announcing the F65...
Click to expand...

I'm 100% with Gunleik, I bought my gear for artistic reasons, I shoot something every day. I have multiple cameras because, well, I would love to shoot 3D AND WILL BE BUGGIN, have been buggin' OFFHOLLYWOODNY for a tech on the setup. It's about art for me, not resale. Maybe some folks should be ticket scalpers instead.

- E
 
A product should cost parts + labor + a % of R&D + a reasonable profit margin.

In the beginning, Red was building these things by hand and that equation added up to $34,500.

Now that they've got a manufacturing system in place and computer components have gotten cheaper that equation now adds up to $19,000.

Anyone who's ever bought a computer or a television knows that's the reality of electronics. It should have been the reality of digital cameras as well, but lack of competition has allowed Sony et al to inflate the hell out of digital camera prices.

So instead of being mad that Red did the right thing here, be mad at the others who never have.
 
Dennis Hingsberg said:
F3 price really stayed the same, only change was including the SLOG RGB 444 upgrade option FREE (which early adopters paid $3800 for).

And I hope you're not implying the F3 is near being discontinued, for broadcast work at least the F3 has a decent road ahead.
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Dennis,

I had thought that I'd seen new F3's body only selling for as little as $8K to $10K, but maybe I was mistaken. I actually mentioned discontination b/c of cameras like the HVX to see how their prices dropped before being discontinued. I think the F3 is an awesome camera. If Sony had put a better codec in it and placed the viewfinder in a usable position, it would have been even more a beast.
 
Gunleik Groven said:
Sony quietly ditched the rest of teir F35's at a very resonable price, just 2 months after their last selling attempt on the beast.
.
Click to expand...

For the reasons summarized and quoted.

Gunleik Groven said:
Which was just before announcing the F65...
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Bingo. :)

And F65 is a significant, required, planned and expected leap ahead.
And technically capable of replacing film.


Btw...a few words appeared in my quote which I didn't write.
Mobile device ?
 
Hrvoje Simic said:
And F65 is a significant, required, planned and expected leap ahead.
And technically capable of replacing film.
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give it a rest and go buy another camera... Im sure that F65 will be extremely valuable after the F55 ships... in fact Lenny has had one for sale on here for a couple weeks. Its on sale for at least a 20% DISCOUNT. Buy that and be happy if you are so convinced its the best camera and will hold its value. He even paid all the interest! http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?88251-F65-COMPLETE-PACKAGE-FOR-SALE

otherwise let it go - you are going to make yourself sick with all this animosity my man.

"Holding a grudge is like drinking poison and then waiting for the other person to die"
 
After 22 pages, I think it's safe to say the only way Red will keep some people happy is by making the dragon upgrades cost somewhere in the region of $100,000... Y'know, just so the camera seems better to the public (irrespective of what image quality looks like).

Also maybe they should offer expensive license keys to unlock frame rates, resolutions and phantom power too? because then it'll be extra special.
 
Not true at all... the sale value of the camera affects the brand perception of the camera. The brand perception of the camera affects how much people are willing to pay for it. A RED One MX selling for the same price as Canon 5D Mark III affects clients perception of the value. A good example of this is the ARRI Alexa... it's high priced and more valued. If RED hurts their brand... they also hurt my investment in their brand.
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Well said....
 
Lee Dashiell said:
Well…this will more than likely be my last RED. I'm not into it anymore.

My camera purchases in the future will more than likely be with Sony or Panasonic or Arri. The arrogance of RED is too much for me to swallow again.

Have a nice day!
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But perhaps a new REDRAY=)
 
Tim Whitcomb said:
give it a rest and go buy another camera... Im sure that F65 will be extremely valuable after the F55 ships... in fact Lenny has had one for sale on here for a couple weeks. Its on sale for at least a 20% DISCOUNT. Buy that and be happy if you are so convinced its the best camera and will hold its value. He even paid all the interest! http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?88251-F65-COMPLETE-PACKAGE-FOR-SALE

otherwise let it go - you are going to make yourself sick with all this animosity my man.

"Holding a grudge is like drinking poison and then waiting for the other person to die"
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Interesting reasoning and rethoric. And a bunch of innacurate assumptions.

:emote_popcorn:
 
Hrvoje Simic said:
Interesting reasoning and rethoric. And a bunch of innacurate assumptions.

:emote_popcorn:
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a bunch of assumptions? name one assumption? Im going off your FACTS ... as you have made it crystal clear in numerous posts that there are better cameras now for you - so go buy one!

The MAIN assumption YOU are making is that the price cut has hurt red's brand. PROVE IT!

and DONT MAKE ASSUMPTIONS... take a POLL. Lets see how many Redusers think that Red hurt their brand by being HONEST. I challenge your assumptions right now

Im also going to poll all my clients and have them tell me how much each camera costs from every major manufacturer.

NOTE: I am not attacking you. I AM attacking your "assumptions." which are based on theory and no empirical evidence.
 
OK guys, name ONE paying client that actually knows in detail how much Sony Arri Jvc Panasonic Red etc camera's cost.
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Hi,

I think with internet people of the industry has reach to all the information...But I think price reduction will open more avenues for rental companies such as multicam options.The type of glass,accesories,support you give to your client will also come into play is a big way.

If we look at the lens market Ultraprimes are backordered by one year,MP are available in 1-2 months but are a risky investment,Cooke is also one year for delivery,RED PRO are not available easily. So if as a rental house if you have a good glass and gear you will always be preferred.
My two cents on this.....

Harcharan
 
Tim Whitcomb said:
a bunch of assumptions? name one assumption? Im going off your FACTS ... as you have made it crystal clear in numerous posts that there are better cameras now for you - so go buy one!

The MAIN assumption YOU are making is that the price cut has hurt red's brand. PROVE IT!

and DONT MAKE ASSUMPTIONS... take a POLL. Lets see how many Redusers think that Red hurt their brand by being HONEST. I challenge your assumptions right now

Im also going to poll all my clients and have them tell me how much each camera costs from every major manufacturer.

NOTE: I am not attacking you. I AM attacking your "assumptions." which are based on theory and no empirical evidence.
Click to expand...

Three innacurate assumptions, perceived as "facts", made by ignoring the context:
1) "Convinced it's the best camera"
2) "Animosity"
3) "better cameras for you"

While you use caps and exclamation points.

I don't have to prove anything. Brand being "hurt" are your words, and perception being positive or negative depends on the position and specific experience in the market segment. Which seems to be consistently ignored. Poll for the purpose suggested is useless as the forum changed significantly since last Nov 3rd.

You are not attacking my assumptions, you perceive you are. "Attack" is unecessary.
 
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