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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

My Dilemma

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Vincent Thomas

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All right , here's what im asking myself to be able to hopefully resolve my actual dilemma before i jump into any decision...

Let's make it short. Red is supposed to release the Dragon update to both Epic and Scarlet soon. If im not a Epic or Scarlet owner, which will be the date i should expected to be able to get a new Scarlet with Dragon sensor inside?
A realistic date... Please, is it possible to know?

Red team? Anyone on the list well informed on the latest news?


Cheers,

vincent*
 
I think you'll be able to have a rough estimate in the next week or so with the announcement and all. Honestly I'd guess a couple months at the earliest. It's all speculation right now though.
 
What dilemma?

Really... You know something we don't! Spill the beans! :)

I would be surprised to see shipping dragon sensors this year, but RED has done a bit to its production and announcing policies. The scarlet started to ship a month after announcement...

But the more important point is to define your needs, as the cameras have grown to be very good as they are.

I - for one - will probably NOT upgrade, as I see that I can use the cameras very well as they are, and haven't really run into a situation where the Epic really is the limiting point for my use....

Others see that differently. Some, shooting anamorf, can really use a 4:3 sensor. And I can appreachiate that. For DSCM stills use, some need a FF stills sensor. I can appreachiate that, too. But those two updates will probably come as new brains. And a new brain with built in xlr's and dual lcd/evf output... THAT would've come in handy... :)

Hahahaha
 
That Dragon-thing is just speculation. Nobody knows if and when it will come out.

But look at it this way: the Scarlet is only 4 months old. For me it's hard to imagine that they will already upgrade the internal parts of the camera. This ain't Canon ;-)

So you have an up-to-date 4K camera that shoots RAW and produces great pictures. What is the dilemma?
 
Erwin van Dijck said:
That Dragon-thing is just speculation. Nobody knows if and when it will come out.
Click to expand...
You mean the "2nd half of 2012" mentioned in RED's FAQ is incorrect information?
 
I'm feeling good about Dragon happening this year. Red's really been making good on their word. Production's really increased. Clearly there's a new focus and determined execution. We've been getting steady and accurate back order updates even. The real question is will there be a line around the block for upgrades and when can we start setting up tents outside HQ :)
 
Vincent, this is my record regarding Red:

- 2006, invested 1k to get in line for a RedOne that didn't exist at this time.

- Spring 2008, got delivery of my RedOne

- Early 2010, Epic Stage III was announced.

- Spring 2012, got deliver of my Epic-X Stage III.

In the meantime I had 4 wonderful years with my RedOne M sensor that I never upgraded.

Now Dragon. Red announced in Summer 2011 that the sensor of Epic is upgradable. No one knows what the new sensor will be like. Will it have 2 stops more latitude, will it deliver even more resolution, will it be faster? No word until now. Is R&D done? Does it exist in a form suitable for line production? BY NAB we might know more, or not.

If you take in account that there are a few thousand Epics out there and 75% want an upgrade BEFORE you get your camera, how long do you think will it take that you will hold a Dragon sensor Epic in your hands?

Get an Epic now, shoot many projects and when you are in line get the upgrade. Taking my experiences with Red in account, Dragon will be available to the masses earliest in 2 years. No dilemma, actually.

Did I mention that Red is the most generous company I ever came a cross? Stage III was an incredible offer. Thanks again!

Hans
 
See above. Haha. Is it just me or is there a lot less hype surrounding the Dragon sensor upgrade compared to the Scarlet announcement? Like, Jim was hardly able to contain himself before the release of Scarlet, but with Dragon I think it's more "this is the future" rather than "place your orders now" compared to the Scarlet release. If you understand what I mean...
 
Actually Epic is out of my need and budget.

Im more concerned about a Scarlet upgrade with better low light sensitivity where i could only deal with natural light, and without getting crazy higher frame rate options without cropping and quality concession... Make sense?
 
Vincent,
I don't want to sound rude,
but if you are in a dilemna it means you don't really need a camera now.
Things are simple if you need a tool to capture images buy it now.
Their is plenty of choices right now.
Regards
Brice
 
I'm hoping the reason Red hasn't started the heatsink upgrade for Epic-M yet is because the Dragon sensor upgrade is only a few months away. May as well do both upgrades at once!

But even if they start in 2 months with the M's, it will be towards the end of the year before new cameras are sold with the new sensor.
 
You could be in a dilemma where to put your investment without being in an immediate need isn'it?

Im not in need now, im looking at the competitor and see if Scarlet will be the best road for me or not.
 
Brice Ansel said:
Vincent,
I don't want to sound rude,
but if you are in a dilemna it means you don't really need a camera now.
Things are simple if you need a tool to capture images buy it now.
Their is plenty of choices right now.
Regards
Brice
Click to expand...

In Vincent's defense, I think he just wants to know the future of the product before he purchases it. It's a smart thing to do before forking out $15k. ;)

As far as I know, RED has been and always will be ahead of their time. You can expect a quality product now and in the future. My opinion: go ahead and buy the camera. It will be capable of the sensor upgrade down the road and it's not like the images you will produce before then will be of poor quality at all either.
 
Your dilemma is waiting for a Scarlet with a Dragon/upgrade sensor?

Wait until NAB's over and digest whatever announcement RED make.

Look at what they say and then make an informed choice.

Consider that RED has said upgrading the Scarlet will be possible - but it will be a more expensive upgrade than the Epic... so, if an Epic isn't within your budget now, an upgraded Scarlet (if/when etc) might not be either.

Really, all everyone can offer is a view on this. RED won't post here as they're not about to spill the beans or spoil any NAB announcements.

Post NAB things will (hopefully) clarify.

You'll also have a lot of cameras to choose from. As others have said, it really depends if you need a camera now.
 
Yes andy, it's more or less what im doing. Another way to ask will be how much will be a scarlet with new sensor and when it will available for new customer , and compare this price with a scarlet now and upgrading path later?

Depend of this, i guess i could ever decide to jump on a scarlet now, or rent it or well look at other solutions while if Dragon's specs, date and price for the Scarlet is out of my reach...
 
I think the best approach is to not adjust your wants and needs based on what RED may or may not do. One reason I say this is because RED is a company that may change course at any time they feel they have uncovered a better thing or way.

I know it is comforting to have answers but when the product maker isn't even completely sure what they will do in a few months, weeks, years... how can any of us offer concrete advice? In the past those who took the leap of faith were rewarded for their trust. There is no assurance of that from here on, but I personally feel if one commits to the company, the company will commit to the customer. But I offer that as my opinion only.
 
Oh you know i don't want married to any camera, i m just married to good story and good team :)

Now talking about Red, if sometimes i dislike the attitude of Red to be too much self confident , i do trust their ability and welcome the way they respect customer investment by offering upgrade options.
My worry is something which in my feeling is underestimated by Red. It's the fact that for some people like myself who are now expert or crazy about camera tuning, it's less scary to think operating a C300 or F700 than being able to first assemble a proper shooting rif, then learn to operate seamless the camera itself then obviously have the ball running smoothly in post too...

Actually i would like to know if this sentiment is shared by few of you?

Now if a gentleman in London has one hour to show me his Scarlet, i will pay him a beer :)

v*
 
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