Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Movie-Camera Maker Red Accuses Rival Arri of Corporate Espionage

Sad

Sad

This still freaks me out as I spent several enjoyable hours talking camera tech with Michael Bravin over the last few years. Fortunately I didn't (and still don't) know any privileged information that could have compromised RED.

How worried about the future of their business must ARRI have been to "allegedly" engage in such skullduggery? Pathetic.

How might the Alexa have been different without whatever info they "allegedly" filched? Hmmm...

Cheers - #19
 
The things that happened on the "Hansel And Gretel" shoot is very, very bad.
This is not the first time I hear about certain rough practices at ARRI.
But its something entirely different, having it black on white.

RED is bringing the revolution. I guess the gloves came off, the bullets are no blanks. It is a shame, as it will change RED as well. It is already changing. It has to to survive.
May the spirit stay high.


p.s.

I shot the other day with an epic on a glacier at 3000m. 20kg kit for 4hrs 5K footage. I shot with RAW view on, did not worry about much else, apart from on/off and aperture. It so feels like a film camera. As if aliens have forgotten it here. So powerful. A company did this in a couple of years from nothing. Boy, I would be worried, if being a camera manufacturer...
 
Marc Wielage said:
The full 32-page complaint as filed is at this link:

http://www.courthousenews.com/2011/12/23/RedCam.pdf
Click to expand...



... pretty frustrating part of "inventors reality" ...

first people, don´t believe the impossible, then steal "it" and sell it as their own ... obviously, without ever referring to the source.
Even if the "it" is only the idea, the "sudden" possibility of "it" being a real possibility ... that inspires research and reverse engineering and what not ...

the amount of damage coming from this, is really infinitely unmeasurable, since it ripples through time, reality and time ... on many levels.

Genuine, genius solutions look always simple at the end, but are HARD work to achieve.

this is the one thing about the internet, that goes on my balls ...
ideas and information spread and are "taken" in a minute, preventive IP protection stalls market entry ... it´s a ghost ... but that´s another story ...

I hope in this case, the jury will "get" the extend of the effect of what is described in the document ....

... and create an example, a beacon to the inventors, movers and lovers of mankind, that give their life to improve ours.

in a world of piracy prevailing, it needs "signs" ...

I wish everyone a fruitful 2012 ... and may the good guys & girlz win ... :-)

cheers,
Detlev
 
Jannard said:
This situation was not our 1st choice... trust me. When details emerge I think most people will be stunned at the severity and extent of the hacking. My bet is that we won't be the only plaintiff. Sad days...

Jim
Click to expand...

Wow. !!! ... watching with interest.
 
If Red's legal team can tie one of Bravin's (allegedly) stolen emails to an actual soft/hardware component on the Alexa, methinks Arri is going to get mauled.
 
Oh to be a fly on the wall when they all met and "proof" that Bravin had been posting under a fake name was revealed. You guys are being awfully sympathetic. I cannot stand liars and thieves under any circumstances.

I also do not agree that we can't hold the entire company responsible for the actions of it's executives. That is the "artificial distance" that happens in corporate business all the time that allows execs to not being held responsible for their actions. Sorry, these guys were Arri. I think it's FINE to vote against the company. The "good people" in Arri who aren't in agreement with their actions should get out immediately. I would at any job if I knew the boss's were corrupt, lying, stealing, cheating, etc. A corporation ultimately is just the people that it is made up of...

Interesting stuff. I think despite of this, RED seems to be doing really well, so I'm not crying too much for them. lol But I hope RED ends up owning Arri after all is said and done, via this lawsuit or due to just good old fashioned "honey badger" business techniques. ;-)
 
One bad apple is an accident. Several more is not....
 
Arri has had a history of unsavory legal practices to squelch competition, just ask Jean-Pierre Beuviala (Aaton Camera). In the past, their legal team and financial might have made things difficult if not impossible for underdogs to succeed in bringing competition to the marketplace. Anyone who thinks that the information obtained by Arri USA didn't go directly to Turkenstrasse Munich is, in my opinion, naive. Arri is not as nearly as mighty and financially sound as in years past, and they may just met their match. This has international implications, for sure.
 
Michael Panfeld said:
If proven, I hope Red takes Arri to the cleaners.
Click to expand...


Kevin Wild said:
lol But I hope RED ends up owning Arri after all is said and done, via this lawsuit or due to just good old fashioned "honey badger" business techniques. ;-)
Click to expand...

This is exactly the sort of language that promotes negativity towards Red. Folks do not like the presumptive arrogance of "our camera is better, lol." It makes them want to stick to the names they were used to before Red came along. As Steve Sherrick has said multiple times, this kind of stuff is irrelevant to us on the ground, everyone should get behind the camera that was chosen for the job at hand. If you work only with Red, why even mention Alexa?

Jim, Jarred & Co. have set an excellent example by saying nothing after the initial incident was revealed. We are not lawyers, we are not manufacturers, it is not our business to drag this lawsuit into the open air.
 
Ed Carlton

Ed Carlton

From the complaint I love this part :


reduser_Bravin.jpg


There are a lot of "Ed Carltons" around the forum these last months... ;-)

Pat


Marc Wielage said:
The full 32-page complaint as filed is at this link:

http://www.courthousenews.com/2011/12/23/RedCam.pdf
Click to expand...
 
I'm still not convinced as to Bravin's email snooping having anything to do with RED. The reduser business is certainly slimey. I for one shall await further details before casting judgment. I also think the allegation gives too much credit to Bravin for the Alexa development which would have taken place while Bravin was an employee of Band Pro and wouldn't have had any need to steal emails. I'm sure more evidence will be supplied by both parties if it goes to trial.
 
In one way or another, Jim, you will own Arri some day. ;-)
 
Jannard said:
Apparently over 7000 emails hacked. We will see what that means...

Jim
Click to expand...

Whoa. That's heavy stuff.

I'm trying to understand what would drive someone to do that. Greed? Or something deeper like envy? It's none of our business, but I think you have to be pretty f'ed up inside to do shit like that... imho. Totally reprehensible.
 
Patrick Tresch said:
There are a lot of "Ed Carltons" around the forum these last months... ;-)
Click to expand...

seriously. it's highly irritating. some of them i'm sure are normal 'trolls' but it irks me to the nth degree to experience that side of humanity showing up... by no means saying i'm a perfect poster, i've stirred up my own amount of trouble (ironically and usually in some kind of attempt to promote balanced thinking - oops :/) - but when these bs threads pop out from nowhere with this 'i heard the epic's noise threshold isn't as good as this hairdryer i found, tell me it's not true and then i'll beat you over the head with bad examples of why it is..." nonsense, or 'is it true the sensor will blow up in the heat?' - ah, frustrates me to no end... make it stop! i love conflict just as much as any man, but please don't insult my intelligence... i do a well enough job of that on my own ;) anyways, hope we can get past all this business and just make amazing artwork this year.
 
Luc Bouvrette said:
Whoa. That's heavy stuff.

I'm trying to understand what would drive someone to do that. Greed? Or something deeper like envy? It's none of our business, but I think you have to be pretty f'ed up inside to do shit like that... imho. Totally reprehensible.
Click to expand...

Desperation, lack of talent, lack of ethics. It probably was the only way an untalented, overrated individual found to prove his worth. In motorsports something similar happened in Formula 1, with Mclaren staff stealing development plans from Ferrari: a very, very hefty fine was handled, they lost all constructor championship points and 2 of the engineers involved were banned/fired. I'm a Mclaren fan but was really, really disappointed with this and it tainted the team's image. I'm a Red "fan" more than an Arri one (it never was an indie friendly company, at least in my lifetime) , but always respected and admired Arri's craftsmanship and reliability.

While the original Alexa might have few of the Red Epic, the rest of the new models, the Alexa M, the new t 4K output, the new form of arriraw, etc and the overall strategy (just visit arri's website) just looks incredibly close to most of Red's offerings. Not trying to put wood into the fire, but as a mere observer it certainly looks like something not at all correct happened on the Arri camp. And that is a shame for such an historical company. I hope, however, that Red gets the support it deserves here. I'm sure many from the "old school" camp who worked with Arri throughout the years will try to dismiss this and try to turn things around. That's why I really hope Red keeps focus and does not get demoralized with the sure to happen flow of defamation coming from the established camp. Let the courts do their work and keep focused in a very promising 2012 which, as you have proven so far, is for those that dare challenge and change the system!
 
Jannard said:
Apparently over 7000 emails hacked. We will see what that means...
Click to expand...
It's a totally dishonorable way to do business on Arriflex's part. I'm really stunned that they didn't fire the guy the moment he produced the first email. Just a total lack of honor.

I'm all for companies to compete fairly, just being judged upon the quality, reliability, and features of their products... but this is just underhanded bullsh!t. I had a lot of respect for Arri (and the Alexa) prior to this.
 
Only time will tell. If true, I often think of the many contributing factors as to why something like this happens. I think the line between doing good and doing bad is always paper thin. Sometimes I think that a bad person is simply someone trying to do good in a misguided way. Historians will always write them down as a simple villains. However, if you think of it, there must be a series of steps that would take a perfectly ordinary person and make them do something completely insane. I'm no psychologist but there must be some kind of term for it.
Anyway, I hope it's all cleared up soon.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top