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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

More SSD questions $$$$$

Christoffer Glans said:
So if SSD's are specialized for the camera and RED's own SSD's are the only ones to work with the module... then how is this different from working with a Red Ram?
Working as a DIT I don't think the capacity is the issue, you often offload way before a mag is full and if CF-cards gets faster and with more capacity I think it's enough for regular production. Is it the speed it generates? Are SSD's needed for the redcode 100, 250 fps, 5K? If so, why SSD's for Red Ones?
Click to expand...

One of the benefits of this SSD module on a RED One is that it trims down the size of the rig, and is a much better option than CF due to data speed and capacity. So no more bulky drives hanging off the camera and less limitations on what can be recorded.
 
David Battistella said:
OK.

Here it is:
from here:
http://reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=604817&postcount=1


Net price of $19,500 and comes with:
1x S35 MYSTERIUM-X brain with PL mount,
1x 5" LCD,
1x REDMOTE,
1x Side CF Module,
1x Module Adaptor,
1x Base I/O Module,
1x Pro Battery Module,
2x REDVOLT standard batteries
1x travel charger.

NOTE: Upgrades available for select monitoring options and modules. i.e 1x Base I/O Module can be upgraded to PRO I/O Module by paying price difference. Details as we get closer.
________________________________________________
Click to expand...

Thanks, David - that's as I remembered it. AFAIK there shouldn't be any major cost difference between a side CF and a side SSD module. Any slight difference should be able to be recouped in the drive costs, much as they did IIRC when people bought the 16gig cards that had a different connector than the original R1 side CF.

As far as TED's rig, I think you get more with this package (in particular the module adapter and pro battery module and maybe the base I/O). I think the only thing TED has that isn't included, is the DSLR style side handle which on the original list is $950. I think TED carries it because it gives a comparison to DSLRs; it is the most compact, least obtrusive for traveling; simplest configuration and may be what they have most on hand (since that is what they are offering with the Epic-M package.)

PS And IIRC the only difference in stage 3 is the LCD is 2.8" instead of 5".
 
Yes,

But Stage 4 people have ZERO investment in RED and we (earlier adopters) have already invested heavily in the program through our R1 purchase. It's nice of RED to be that considerate of us.

David
 
David Battistella said:
Yes,

But Stage 4 people have ZERO investment in RED and we (earlier adopters) have already invested heavily in the program through our R1 purchase. It's nice of RED to be that considerate of us.

David
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's pretty damn cool of them. It also means that snagging one of Ketch's Stage 2 or 3 offerings is still a decent deal for those of us late to the party.
 
D Fuller said:
Gunleik,
I understand why higher bitrates and the increase in S/N resulting from additional downsampling will improve Epic, but given the raw signal path, what would make them different if compression and resolution were the same? What am I missing?

In other words, looking at a 2-camera shoot where both cameras use settings within the R1MX range of capabilities, what do you think is going to make them different?
Click to expand...

OK. Highly speculative mode on here... Wear hard hats...

The bit depth it's recorded at is AFAIK 2 bits more than the R1 MX (14 vs 12 bits)

Early on, Graeme explained that mainly a stop was assignet to an available bit, with some precission "borrowed" from the top bit to avoid recording to the lowest bits with the least preccission, which makes sense, as half the levels are between the last and the next-last bit. Roughly clocking in around the 6th bit with 100+ levels available in the darkest areas.

(I may have misunderstood this gravely, but it suits well with what I see, too...)

If you add two more bits to the soup (pre comprsession), and the epic has enough processingpower to chew through that extra data, you'd get more info out of the RAW file, even though both are RAW from the same sensor with the same FOV.

The MX comparisons RED have been publishing, have been done with the Epic, and I see "more" there than I can replicate with an MX here. There may be all sorts of reasons for that, but one could be that the Epic has more data headroom and thus can make "more" out of the bottom. From what I see in the absolute lows of the MX, that makes sense. There seems to be more room for imagery between "almost black" and "black".

That said, I see no reason for them not to match very well. It is possible that you could slap an extra ND6 or so on the Epic and still dig out the same lowlights as on the R1MX... sorta... ish.. -:) maybe...

(protecting my head here...)

But if you shoot with the same ND's and F-stop with the same compression and FOV settings, I see no reason that it shouldn't intercut excellently...

The extra processing might give a cleaner image for compression on the Epic, or it may not. We'll all see in not too long time.

Cheers

G
 
Sounds reasonable to me Gunleik thanks for the explanation.
 
David Battistella said:
Yes,

But Stage 4 people have ZERO investment in RED and we (earlier adopters) have already invested heavily in the program through our R1 purchase. It's nice of RED to be that considerate of us.

David
Click to expand...

Yes, it is nice of RED to be that considerate of you David, which may explain why Deanan got a little irked with you earlier in the thread :).

RED seem to be making every effort to keep their early customers happy and to be as open as possible in communicating with the wider community via this site, whereas most other companies play their cards very close to their chests. They're on the last lap now and very close to delivering what promises to be something special. Given the upgrades they've added, such as SSD and HDRx™, I think it's to be expected that they also take the opportunity to cast their eye over pricing and package options, although that doesn't necessarily mean that the news is going to be grim.
 
Yeah. I might have already been flagged as a "bad attitude" customer for trying to rationalize price increases and plan my purchase.

I guess I'll figure that out somehow, sometime, somewhere.

David
 
Gunleik Groven said:
OK. Highly speculative mode on here... Wear hard hats...

The bit depth it's recorded at is AFAIK 2 bits more than the R1 MX (14 vs 12 bits)

G
Click to expand...

2 more bits. I had forgotten about that. Significant. By an order of magnitude! LOL!

I suspect you are on to something here.
 
D Fuller said:
2 more bits. I had forgotten about that. Significant. By an order of magnitude! LOL!

I suspect you are on to something here.
Click to expand...

It is, if the sensor needs it to get all stops off it. The M seems pretty happy with 12. To me the MX on R1 looks slightly hungry for more...
 
Gunleik Groven said:
To me the MX on R1 looks slightly hungry for more...
Click to expand...

Agreed. And my experience with Nikons supports that completely. There's nothing different as it comes out of the camera, but when you start grading, those extra bits mean a world of difference in the dark 1/3 of the image.
 
David Battistella said:
Yeah. I might have already been flagged as a "bad attitude" customer for trying to rationalize price increases and plan my purchase.
Click to expand...

I don't think you need to worry about that too much. This thread has shed a lot of light on a subject I suspect a lot of people have been trying to come to terms with. And I don't speak for Red, of course, but it would surprise me if they read this and thought less of you. They are not always the best at communicating the rationale for their decisions, and we have to either assume a lot or ask a lot of questions or just play along. There's no "Theory of Operation" at Reduser. There's just a lot of us crowded around this big dinner table trying to figure out what they mean and what it means to us. (OK, it was just Thanksgiving, the metaphor seemed natural.) It gets noisy, but in the end, we all know a little more. Even the folks at Red, they know a little more too.
 
Thanks David.

That's kinda how I am feeling and I have learned a lot here. A few people have, at different times expressed a fear of bringing up certain topics here for fear of RED retribution, but I don't want to believe that is the culture here.

It's their house, but it's the best place to cone to sort things out.

David
 
David Battistella said:
Thanks David.

That's kinda how I am feeling and I have learned a lot here. A few people have, at different times expressed a fear of bringing up certain topics here for fear of RED retribution, but I don't want to believe that is the culture here.

It's their house, but it's the best place to cone to sort things out.

David
Click to expand...

It's their house, but they invited us. When they run out of Scotch, they have to expect a little whining. (OK, I've taken this dinner metaphor about as far as I'm going to. LOL.) the important thing is whether we're open to learning.

I'm not excited about spending an extra $6K on SSD, but I understand why that's a good idea. (Moreso because of this thread.) The past 10-15 years have been brutal if you own production equipment and want to keep it current. In 2001, I threw over $180k of editing gear into a dumpster because the company I owned had replaced it with Avids and I couldn't find any place that would even take it as a donation. That was hard to do, but life goes on, and the work got better.
</thread jack></whining>
 
David.

I hear you. But every great dinner often ends with dessert and that's what we are waiting for. But I also don't want that to overshadow the main course (which was the red one) especially being stage 2.

Learning us everything. Without it there is not much else.

David
 
David Battistella said:
Thanks David.

That's kinda how I am feeling and I have learned a lot here. A few people have, at different times expressed a fear of bringing up certain topics here for fear of RED retribution, but I don't want to believe that is the culture here.

It's their house, but it's the best place to cone to sort things out.

David
Click to expand...

I haven't read all your posts, but I think as long as you are sincere (i.e. not trolling) and do your best to be reasonable and fair, in the end Jim/RED respond in kind.
 
David Battistella said:
David.

I hear you. But every great dinner often ends with dessert and that's what we are waiting for. But I also don't want that to overshadow the main course (which was the red one) especially being stage 2.
Click to expand...

There ought to be something here about brandy and cigars, but I guess that'll have to wait until we're holding an Epic. ;-}

(Oh, wait, I said I was going to stop wit the dinner metaphor...)
 
G Lap said:
Yes, it is nice of RED to be that considerate of you David, which may explain why Deanan got a little irked with you earlier in the thread :).
Click to expand...

I'm not irked at all. :)
Constructive feedback is always welcome and helpful.
Antagonistic 'pushback' simply isn't heard as well so if you have good feedback, how you present it has an impact on it's effectiveness.
 
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