More Rants

[Andrae Palmer]

I don't understand... is he ranting because he will miss out on the free Epic accessories if he buys a RED One now? If you a buy RED one now, you can trade it in for $17,500. Lenny did you misinterpret what RED announced yesterday and think you will have to purchase an Epic for 28k plus the accessories for around 6k?

 

[Noah Kadner]

If you had to sell your low serial number camera in the first place due to economic conditions does it really make sense to be desiring to get your hands on a much more expensive model right away. Sounds like your particular business might be better served by renting as needed than owning if your margin is so tight.

-Noah

 

[Fran Kuhn]

but the reason why there is a 7D/5D is RED ! dont forget that !
otherwise they would have released it 2019 !

just for info ! Red produces digital CINEMA cameras....
there is a price for CINEMA.......dont compare it to FOTO

Hi Kreisky,

Just to be fair, from everything I've read Canon and Nikon developed the video function primarily for the demands photojournalist market, not as a reaction to RED. There is a very good chance the Digital Cinema market is too small for them to seriously chase. They can make more money with their prosumer products and professional still cameras.

Best,

-Fran

 

[Lenny Manfred]

Lenny,

Didn't Jim say if you buy a RED today you will be able to trade up to a Epic BODY ONLY. Is your main rant against missing out on the accessories?

yes. you know, give a cut off date in advance, not after the fact. let me then have the chance to make an educated decision, don't spring it up as a surprise. it's like i am playing dungeons and dragons or something. it seems silly.

can you imagine panasonic doing that special deal they had on their 3700 camera (the one where if you traded a camera you could buy the 3700 for about 30k) and not telling you the date the offer was over? i can't remember seeing these kinds of games with camera manufacturers before, it is just not the way they do business.

why all the secrecy and suspense, why not set up a cut off date in advance and let us then make a intelligent decision on something than involves so much money?

again, i want to underline, i love what red was trying to do at the start: make a cinema camera within reach of most people. the "rebellion" and all these "red" references with communist overtones had the message of bringing the camera to the people, and they did that.

but, now, i think they have lost their way. so many games and rules and clubs and stuff. i don't like this sect/private club/dungeons and dragons mentality. i don't want to have to read up on all these "messages from the leader" to just buy a camera. just sell the darn things!!

 

[Andrae Palmer]

Lenny,

How can you expect communist membership privileges when you are not a RED carrying member? Shouldn't you be happy with the trade in offer? You get a little socialism... just not all the comrade benefits.

 

[Lenny Manfred]

If you had to sell your low serial number camera in the first place due to economic conditions does it really make sense to be desiring to get your hands on a much more expensive model right away. Sounds like your particular business might be better served by renting as needed than owning if your margin is so tight.

-Noah

i have asked myself that same question many times, and all my friends keep asking too. The best answer I can give is that I think i had learned from my earlier mistakes.

My plan now was to buy the camera with the most basic accessories and to limit my total investment to 25k, same as my hdx900s, and use my same tripods, my same anton bauer batteries, my same monitors, etc. also, keep the lens investment to 20-25k at the most, same as my HD lenses. that way, when a client hired me to shoot a job, i could offer the RED as an alternative for the same price as my hdx900s, which would make it more attractive.

and this time i was going to stay away from renting, because renters have certain package expectations that i was not going to provide, but for me, i know what i need and i have what i need.

 

[Stephen Williams]

You sold everything for the price you paid. Not much to complain about there.

If you had instead sold all your accessories and kept the RED ONE body (#202) to trade in, you would have saved $5,250 in free modules.

Did you at least get $5,250 worth of use out of such a low serial number camera before you sold it?

Gotta keep things in perspective....

He also got $2500 of free accessories, I cant believe he passed on the gift selling an early serial no camera.

 

[Stephen Williams]

ehehehehe the quality of your humor is going up

- the gang

It's actually true.

Best Stephen

 

[Lenny Manfred]

Lenny,

How can you expect communist membership privileges when you are not a RED carrying member? Shouldn't you be happy with the trade in offer? You get a little socialism... just not all the comrade benefits.

then you don't understand communism. the idea of communism is to help all of the people, not just the few special ones.

 

[George Butterfield]

then you don't understand communism. the idea of communism is to help all of the people, not just the few special ones.

Please tell Pelosi, and the gang ...

 

[Andrae Palmer]

then you don't understand communism. the idea of communism is to help all of the people, not just the few special ones.

Yes that is the idealism of the concept... but in reality the elites are the communist party members and deserve special treatment. Surely you must notice that the full value trade in is very helpful for all. You gave up your rights to party privileges with you sold your camera.

 

[rod bradley]

Lenny, obviously no one is going to cure you of your bad feelings. Or convince you that you are responsible for your decisions. And a lot of people have had hard luck with the financial times and gigs falls through all the time.

That you seem to expect Red to take your special circumstances into account is baffling.

There's been a lot of good solid advice given here. Calm down and you'll be fine.

I don't think Red espoused communism just because they chose the color as their signature. If you don't catch Jim's humor and irony in this, well, I think you're missing something. I don't know how much experience you've had living in communist countries, but I've had a little. The IDEA of communism is appealing -- but like most Utopian ideals, the human being gets in the way. Communism is even better at helping "just the few special ones" than capitalism when it comes right down to it.

But good luck to you man. Sounds a lot like you have seller's regret. Understandable. And know you aren't alone in overbuying and over-anticipating the income a Red camera would generate. It's an easy mistake. A good lesson if you hear it -- the camera does not make the man. Or the project. It's only a small part of a complex enterprise.

 

[Lenny Manfred]

Please tell Pelosi, and the gang ...

that is the reality of the world, when the communist leaders get into power they loose sight of their beliefs, happens in the real world, and it seems to be happening here.

that does not mean that communism is bad, that just means human nature ruins it.

since it is too late to remind Marx, Lenin, Mao, and soon Fidel, I just wanted to remind Jannard to keep his communism honest.

 

[jimhare]

Hi Lenny,

I may be able to shed a bit of light on this. In my opinion, the existing user upgrade is simple:

Red promised the Red One would never be obsolete. While this is true, since they intend to continue development on the firmware, the immediately realized that the camera really needed to be modular to truly be called never obsolete.

So what they decided to do was be true to their word, and attempt to get all Red 1 owners to Epic, so they could feel they were being true to their word.

Epic naturally costs more, and there was only so much they could ask of their current owners.

Again, in my opinion, This is more about a fresh start.

Everyone who didn't have a Red One, or sold their's at the start for whatever reason, needs to look at Epic with fresh eyes and not be swayed by what anyone else paid.

As early Red owners, we have been through our fair share of pain to help get the camera to it's current level, and defended it with all our might along the way. Yes, this is a reward for that loyalty, but also the right thing for Red to do to keep their word to us.

I agree, a publicly owned company would never do what Red does. I am so grateful for that! ;-)

All the best,

Jim Hare
Sydney

 

[Lenny Manfred]

Lenny, obviously no one is going to cure you of your bad feelings. Or convince you that you are responsible for your decisions. And a lot of people have had hard luck with the financial times and gigs falls through all the time.

i am not having second thoughts of my decision to sell the camera, i was happy to get out of it then. times for me are different now, and it makes sense to buy again.

all i am asking is that i would have liked the chance to make an educated decision about if and when to buy again with all the pertinent information on which to base my decision. you don't set up a cut off date after the fact! that seems silly to me.

what i am getting here is that a lot of you are the kind of folks that would like the door to close after you came in from the cold, and let the rest of the people stay out and freeze. i say keep the door open. (but put in one of those rolling doors you see in hotels entrances, so the warm air stays in)

 

[Andrae Palmer]

what i am getting here is that a lot of you are the kind of folks that would like the door to close after you came in from the cold, and let the rest of the people stay out and freeze. i say keep the door open. (but put in one of those rolling doors you see in hotels entrances, so the warm air stays in)

So after the RED One is End Of Life... new buyers of an Epic should get it for $18000 with the accessories?

 

[jimhare]

Hi Lenny,

I completely understand what you're saying but have a different slant on the reality.

Of course everyone wanted to wait until the announcement before committing, that's a natural reaction.

But seriously, did everyone really expect Red to lay out all their cards on the table, and still allow everyone to run out and buy a new Red One and trade it in a few months later for a 100% refund plus free accessories?

I'm sorry but that makes no sense.

Think about it this way. What if they warned everyone first about the cutoff. Then some people would have bought a Red One HOPING that the annoucement would be favorable to them. What if it wasn't? What if it was the complete opposite of what they want and now they have a Red One, that they only bought to obtain a discount on an Epic?

There was really no other way to do it, other than just sell the Epic X for $28,000, which makes no sense.

I understand your frustration Lenny, but I don't think you're thinking this through. There was really no other way to do it.

i am not having second thoughts of my decision to sell the camera, i was happy to get out of it then. times for me are different now, and it makes sense to buy again.

all i am asking is that i would have liked the chance to make an educated decision about if and when to buy again with all the pertinent information on which to base my decision. you don't set up a cut off date after the fact! that seems silly to me.

what i am getting here is that a lot of you are the kind of folks that would like the door to close after you came in from the cold, and let the rest of the people stay out and freeze. i say keep the door open. (but put in one of those rolling doors you see in hotels entrances, so the warm air stays in)

 

[Martin Weiss]

if you where one of the first 7,000 customers that bought a camera, and you did not sell your camera either, then, we still want to do business with you. but if you did not buy a camera from us in our first two years of business, or if you did, but you sold it, we don't want you to buy again from us.

Sorry for my language, but WTF.

By extend you are saying that Sony, Panasonic, Apple, Canon, Nikon, Olympus, BMW, Porsche, McDonald's, Nike, etc, etc, etc. ad nauseam do not want to do business with you either. Because, you have to pay full price for new piece of equipment. That RED offers you a full trade-in for a RED One, and even offers a whole load extra for early adopters is amazing. But even more amazing how some people somehow manage to turn that against RED.

Rally, what - the - fuck!!!

(BTW, I am saying this as a private person).

So, if you where a kid during those first two years and now that you got out of school and you want to start doing your own productions, you are out of luck.

If you are kid now, you should count yourself sooo lucky. You can go to any WalMart and buy a camera that produces broadcast quality images for a couple of hundred bucks. You can edit that footage on your laptop. You can publish it on the Internet. Then when you get some recognition you can buy a HD camera (be it a HDcam, Some Canon offering, a Scarlet, a used RED) - or for a very reasonable price rent a cinema-quality camera.

You call this out of luck?

When I got out of school there were VHS-C recorders that cost about 15.000 USD. Only hard cuts. Crap quality in the 3rd generation.

[…] only the chosen 7,000 will be able to buy this camera as a package at a reasonable price, and the rest of us will have to pay a lot more to own it, and there are all these confusing rules to keep up with that will probably change anyway...

Those 7.000 were not "chosen". They chose to pay for their RED One camera, and stuck to it. If anything, those 7.000 "chose" RED.

I don't know what is confusing about those rules. You don't have a RED One anymore, so you pay the list price. Simple.

[…] RED, it is more a club, less a business.

So you complain first about that RED will not give you all those extra modules, even though you no longer own a RED One, but then you complain that RED should be run more like a business?

You (who by his own admission has not had great success at his business dealings) tell RED (who is run by a very successful business man) that it is not run like a business?

Now, just like in most communist regimes, [RED] becomes an elitist society where the "friends" of the leader get all the benefits and the people are left out in the cold.

Man, I hope Ace doesn't read this.

Posts like yours really get me angry.

 

[DCC Erickson]

wow ... ranting is really a huge waste of time ... another lesson learned at REDUSER.NET!

 

[Zachary Marsh]

wow ... ranting is really a huge waste of time ... another lesson learned at REDUSER.NET!

According to RED, ranting shouldn't be a waste of time. They say they listen to their customers.