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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

More HDRx...

Bill Anderson said:
The point would be, assuming we know what we are looking at in this regard, so that we might ask questions regarding Jim's intentions. So we understand full well what is and what isn't on the radar. Hasn't this been an important part of the RED community's development"? Hrvoje, I think we might be talking at cross purposes here. Or expressing the same thing in different ways. Surely you are not telling me that one cannot, even though one understands the nature of what is being shown, scrutinize and comment on it? My original post has been bent so far out of whack as to be all but meaningless at this point. Not an uncommon thing in itself.
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Merely pointing out what is, in my opinion, redundant. Thoughts and comments should always be welcome, which is what this place is about, but scrutiny and final judgement make no sense in this phase IMO.
Thanks for clarification, Bill. I understand what you meant.
 
Acess to HDRx teaser

Acess to HDRx teaser

Are we only able to access the teaser video once? When I go back to watch it again, all I see is a giant set of controls. Play/pause button, timeline, etc. and a gray screen. Really want to see this again. It is blowing my mind. The footage is so unbelievable. The most unbelievable part about it is how un-unbelievable it looks. It just looks right. This point was driven home each time I showed it to a "layperson" and their reaction, inevitably, was something along the lines of "Huh. Looks nice." Of course I always ended up saying, but wait don't you get it?! Look at the sky! Look at the shadows! You can see them BOTH!

I guess the point is that this image looks the way I always wanted acquired images to look. Kind of the way the eye sees them. Except maybe better.

Edit: The one-time playback problem was a Chrome thing. Works fine in Safari.
 
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OH, MY GOD.

Thank you Jim, and RED Company.

I knew you'd accomplish this, but not this quickly. I'm dumbstruck and speechless.

Dillon Thomas
 
Sanjin Jukic said:
Probably HDRx™™™ with EPIC and SCARLET is doing many things already during time of camera recording thanks to the new made hardware
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Sorry San, but your example makes no sense.

The preview is @ 100 asa... Indicating that it for some totally un-understandably reason was shot at 100 asa.

I can recreate the whole thing with a simple curve/saturation thing without doing multiple developments and post-mix.
THis is good and just shows that the latitude is possible to get hold of...

Your image is not related to what Jim is showing as far as I can see. It is just showing off DR capacity of the MX, but nothing even in the ballpark of what this thread is about.

Thanks for the r3d!
And I know you write this with the best and most enthusiastic intentions. But it doesn't relate to what Jim is showing off by even a small degree...

Gunleik
 
As a landscape photographer who almost always uses GND filters to balance lighting conditions, I am blown away by this footage. It's beautiful, it doesn't have that funky HDR processed look. This really is exciting stuff! I'm all over it.
 
There is one aspect of viewing motion pictures where the audience doesn't seem to be annoyed by artifacts and that is motion portrayal.

Although we are very sensitive to skin tone our brain seems to adapt very well to varying forms of motion portrayal.

Digital cameras, by necessity have had to ape the dismal 24fps frame rate which in-itself is a throwback to the limitations of sound recording technology almost a century ago.

I hope HDRx™ is not the last of innovations that break us free from the inherited limitations of the mechanical aspects of the film process.


Mike Brennan
 
Agreed Michael. And our hard won acceptance of film's interpretation of motion shouldn't prevent us from keeping an open mind about other interpretations. Looking at the recent HDR samples, I don't think this will be difficult to do (for most of us).
 
Gunleik Groven said:
Sorry San, but your example makes no sense.

The preview is @ 100 asa... Indicating that it for some totally un-understandably reason was shot at 100 asa.

I can recreate the whole thing with a simple curve/saturation thing without doing multiple developments and post-mix.
THis is good and just shows that the latitude is possible to get hold of...

Your image is not related to what Jim is showing as far as I can see. It is just showing off DR capacity of the MX, but nothing even in the ballpark of what this thread is about.

Thanks for the r3d!
And I know you write this with the best and most enthusiastic intentions. But it doesn't relate to what Jim is showing off by even a small degree...

Gunleik
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Gunleik,

you are totally missing the point what I was saying...

First my example was not shot at 100 ISO that was customized in RCX.

I choose that EI @ ISO 100 as a starting point of creation basic images that later can be incorporated in HDR image...

Simply to say is that EPIC and hopefully Scarlet new hardware is able to record with a different EI or exposure indexes at the same time.

Actually RED1 MX sees wide range of exposure but a question what is usable from all of that.

Noise floor and increased saturation are main artifacts you can meet there...

Usable range of exposure stops are mostly called DR and HDR is a higher level of that between the lightest and darkest areas of an image.

It's about to get the best out of it what the sensor (MX) can see.

The point is that EPIC and Scarlet would be able to generate R3D with HDRx option directly in camera

and not like with R1 MX that you have to go by hand with choice of exposures that would be usable for HDR.

Hope you would get an idea now what is going on there...

How RED is doing HDRx, tone mapping, exposure bracketing, exposure fusion, something in between or totally different is going to rise many questions now...
 
San, we are talking in circles.

my simple point is that I can achieve with a single curve and saturation adjustment to the r3d, what you have used several tiff's to get, and that's because your example has nothing to do with HDR, conceptually or practically.

The R1 MX DR is good. We agree on that.

DR is often what you "can" get out of a sensor. Latitude is often the "useable" part.

Your clip, though nice, doesn't really stretch even the R1 MX DR. But it is a nice shot.

Curious, though - how you manage the r3D to open with a specific setting diferent from what you shot it at - without an RSX/RMD.

No criticicm. Just curiosity.

Anyho...

I'll go back offline for a while.

Cheers!

G
 
Gunleik Groven said:
San, we are talking in circles.
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Just because you are not getting what I'm saying...

But keep in mind that R1 MX and EPIC X both have the same basic sensor design but different boards that means EPIC X

as a newer hardware can get something to keep eye on different exposures that you don't need later to search in R3D like with R1.

Also because of that HDRx enchanted R3D files are much bigger than normal R3Ds...
 
I am probably not getting what you are saying.

And we are definitely implying different dynamic ranges when we use the term HDR.

That's fine with me.

Cheers!
 
I have been beyond impressed by Jim's and the team's efforts with HDRx. I'm really disappointed that so many people pick this early stuff apart- it does frustrate me so. Its clear to me that the release version of HDRx and Magic Motion will rule the world. Graeme, Deanan, Simon and everybody else on this are just blasting a hole in the sky. I'd love to see some more snippets soon, its just way too cool to get a peek inside the process.
 
This is absolutely amazing, I can't wait to see what HDRx can do with a dusk or night shot. Thanks for letting us peek behind the curtain.:drool5:
 
I may be wrong but I'd guess that with HDRx all the extra stops are added to the highlights, whereas, low light ability would stay the same (still great with MX tho)
 
Gunleik Groven said:
I am probably not getting what you are saying.

And we are definitely implying different dynamic ranges when we use the term HDR.

That's fine with me.

Cheers!
Click to expand...

HDRx definitely squeezing more DR out of MX sensor.

How?

Maybe that's not so important now to know all those RED HDR tricks...

And it's more important to get those cameras out (Epic and Scarlet) and start to roll...
 
Hi Sanjin and Gunleik,

IMHO Sanjin is right if he is using simulated bracketing and some sort of tone mapping.

I've used and tought HDR for years in photography and me and my students experimented with it as soon as we got our R1.

If you use a R3D straight out of the camera all our usual grading tools can only adapt the tonal curve globally. Tone mapping can do local adaptions. They are tricky to adjust and very scene dependent. Apart from noise, halo and saturation (which can be overcome to some degree), the main problem with this approach in moving images are fluctuations over time. We decided that it's not a valid method for serious filmmaking, but it definitely is giving different results than a file straight into grading.

Hope this explains it a bit, and I'm very glad RED discovered a better method.
 
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