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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

More HDRx...

Joseph Hutson said:
Only thing needed to be said is: no HDRx™
:thumbup1:
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Absolutely. I was already excited about Mysterium X having DR way beyond anything with which I've ever worked. This is just a dream come true.

BTW, Joseph, I was surprised not to see you on the "Who is Red?" thread. You're usually the voice of reason in the Scarlet crowd. :wink5:
 
My heart is pounding the way it did when my Red 1 was about to be delivered.... I didn't think I could ever be that impressed again. Small improvements yes. This is not a small thing. this has got me excited like christmas.
 
Jannard said:
My definition of professional is "those that dream higher".

Jim
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I love this quote..... :)

This is incredible stuff Jim! Thank you so much for putting in Scarlet!

WELL worth 1K!! It's quite humorous to me to see such a "uproar" over a $1000 dollars, when you get this. Just a few years ago people would spend 10K on a EX-3 or whatever. Man people lose sight of the big picture quick.

Can't wait to play with a R3D!

This might have been answered in another thread, but in post will you be able to adjust the different exposures creating the HDRx™. For example would I be able to adjust the exposure of the image exposed for the barn, and separately be able to adjust the image exposed for the outside?
 
Erwin Vanderhoydonks said:
I think, for me and perhaps some other people also, this 'Two Tracks' need some extra explanation. But this will come I suppose...
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The two tracks would look "something" Like this mock up for illustrative purposes only:

OverUnder.jpg


The brighter would be the 'normal' track and the darker the HDRx. The normal would have the normal motion blur and the HDRx would have little to no motion blur.


Jeremy_Sawatzky said:
why would you want or need to go any higher?
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Because there are still "artifacts" in the motion. Maybe Magic Motion will become the preferred look due to some previously undiscovered visual phenomenon that makes it desirable--but there will always be the situation where it would be better to have a totally natural motion blur.

RED has to make a bit of a compromise: increased dynamic range in exchange for slightly 'funky' motion blur.

Beyond having more natural motion blur, more native Dynamic Range would further reduce noise. Improve sensitivity (remember the 'normal' exposure doesn't get any sensitivity boost thanks to HDRx beyond the perceptual reduction in noise thanks to an increased dynamic range). It would also give you a larger blend area so that you could still use HDRx but maybe to a lesser extent to get the same dynamic range.
 
Okay, thats amazing. Amazing being a HUGE understatement... It's phenomenal, this is game changing history!

RED Team, you guys are great, thanks for all the long hard hours, much appreciated!
 
Jannard said:
I'm so excited that I can't sleep.
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Do you have any idea how many people out here are having a hard time getting to sleep if keep on posting there wonderfull information/framegrabs/movies/...
Imagine what will happen to all those people when they can try it out for themself... Now I know why you can't release EPC/Scarlet. People are not yet ready for it. We are still adapting to the idea...
 
Gavin Greenwalt said:
The two tracks would look "something" Like this mock up for illustrative purposes only:

OverUnder.jpg


The brighter would be the 'normal' track and the darker the HDRx™. The normal would have the normal motion blur and the HDRx™ would have little to no motion blur.




Because there are still "artifacts" in the motion. Maybe Magic Motion will become the preferred look due to some previously undiscovered visual phenomenon that makes it desirable--but there will always be the situation where it would be better to have a totally natural motion blur.

RED has to make a bit of a compromise: increased dynamic range in exchange for slightly 'funky' motion blur.

Beyond having more natural motion blur, more native Dynamic Range would further reduce noise. Improve sensitivity (remember the 'normal' exposure doesn't get any sensitivity boost thanks to HDRx™ beyond the perceptual reduction in noise thanks to an increased dynamic range). It would also give you a larger blend area so that you could still use HDRx™ but maybe to a lesser extent to get the same dynamic range.
Click to expand...

Gavin... I have to admit that sometimes you really get my goat. The Foundry is working on an option so that you can have any kind of motion perception that you want. We have posted as such. We love "Magic Motion". If you don't, you have options. I'm not exactly sure what your point is.

Jim
 
If this was shot using HDRx, it would be great if the "Normal" track was posted for comparison. I think the effect/realization will be more pronounced with something to compare with. Even standalone, incredible stuff. Never seen a shot quite like it in motion.
 
Erwin Vanderhoydonks said:
Do you have any idea how many people out here are having a hard time getting to sleep if keep on posting there wonderfull information/framegrabs/movies/...
Click to expand...

lol. I regretted popping those two Tylenol PMs an hour ago for my flu when I saw this thread pop up. It's too late the damage has been done! :D
 
Gavin Greenwalt said:
Because there are still "artifacts" in the motion. Maybe Magic Motion will become the preferred look due to some previously undiscovered visual phenomenon that makes it desirable--but there will always be the situation where it would be better to have a totally natural motion blur.

RED has to make a bit of a compromise: increased dynamic range in exchange for slightly 'funky' motion blur.
Click to expand...

I have to agree. I'm still not getting the magic motion bit and I've watched the girl spinning the stick on the green background a bunch of times. It almost feels like it's ...strobing? Is that the right description? I don't know. Possibly my inexperienced eyes are too used to seeing normal motion.
 
Hay! I was just at that location in Nevada last week doing a top secret 4K project. I wish I had my hands on a Epic and HDX then. Beautiful location.
 
Jannard said:
Gavin... I have to admit that sometimes you really get my goat. The Foundry is working on an option so that you can have any kind of motion perception that you want. We have posted as such. We love "Magic Motion". If you don't, you have options. I'm not exactly sure what your point is.

Jim
Click to expand...

My apologies if you think I'm putting down HDRx. I'm not. I don't mean to denigrate the tech. HDRx is amazing. It's groundbreaking. I really want it. But it's not exactly the same as the real thing. Almost everything I work on uses the Foundry's motion blur. It's not always perfect.

To deny that HDRx isn't the same as actually capturing the true motion blur of native 18 stop sensor is to misrepresent it. I don't feel you are misrepresenting it. But every 'trick' has a dark side. I'm not saying the tricks won't work 99% of the time. Just that in the other 1% you wish you could do it natively.

Even The Foundry is the first to say that their tools are great. Their tools save time. But they don't always work perfectly.

If you like the look of Magic Motion more than normal motion blur then it's a feature. If you don't, then you'll never get it perfect. You'll usually get it pretty damn near perfect but there'll always be artifacts. I speak from experience in using these tools on a nearly daily basis. If you like I could present you with a number of scenarios in which MNMB would almost certainly fail. But I know The Foundry knows them as well.
 
Joseph Hutson said:
Only thing needed to be said is: no HDRx™
:thumbup1:
Click to expand...

or no redcode

those are the two big ones for me

But the rest are pretty awesome too.

When Red announces they've increased the price of their 3K RAW
'150p' camera to just slightly less than Canon's 1440x1080 24Mbps 24i camera, there must be someone out there somewhere realizing how bad they just got ripped off and packing up a Canon or Sony product to send back to B&H, swearing "I'm waiting for Scarlet"
 
Gavin Greenwalt said:
My apologies. I don't mean to denigrate the tech. HDRx™ is amazing. It's groundbreaking. I really want it. But it's not exactly the same as the real thing. Almost everything I work on uses the Foundry's motion blur. It's not always perfect.

To deny that HDRx™ isn't the same as actually capturing the true motion blur of native 18 stop sensor is to misrepresent it. I don't feel you are misrepresenting it. But every 'trick' has a dark side. I'm not saying the tricks shouldn't employed 99% of the time. Just that in the other 1% you wish you could do it natively.

Even The Foundry is the first to say that their tools are great. Their tools save time. But they don't always work perfectly.

If you like the look of Magic Motion more than normal motion blur then it's a feature. If you don't, then you'll never get it perfect. You'll usually get it pretty damn near perfect but there'll always be artifacts.
Click to expand...

Gavin... just so you know, the Chief Scientist of The Foundry, Simon Robinson, said... "Frankly, with results like this we were amazed that Jim was even looking at further options."

So if you have another opinion, we welcome it. Just as long as you take Simon's opinion into consideration. :-)

Jim
 
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