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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Monstro initial thoughts

David J. Buchanan

David J. Buchanan

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Some testing conclusions on Monstro.

1. Still green in shadows, though easily correctable or should I say more correctable than Helium, at least to me.

2. Color fidelity is pretty damn impressive, except for extremely bright colors, esp green. I only tested IPP2 and not a flat image.

3. Cleanest cinema camera I've had my hands on. I have not tested Gemini. (Easily happy with ISO 3200 even with new calibration, and I'm not a fan of noise)

4. Resolution is there, and sharp, almost too sharp, except I like my images as crispy as they can get so it doesn't bother me.

5. Holy shit do the images pop when shooting wide open, even with wide lenses.

Wishes -- I still don't like the fact that I have to correct the green and seeing how it's easier with this sensor, I wish there was an updated Monstro color.

Not a RED problem, but I fucking hate stacking NDs and I wish there was something internal.

More thoughts to come with further testing.

R3Ds: https://drive.google.com/open?id=11qglgFkrAWHRM0tt42rvSGi7z2g8UB6F
 
David J. Buchanan said:
Some testing conclusions on Monstro.

4. Resolution is there, and sharp, almost too sharp, except I like my images as crispy as they can get so it doesn't bother me.

More thoughts to come with further testing.
Click to expand...

You sure know how to kick in an open door, what did you expect with a Monstro and an Otus lens.
 
David,

To my eye in these images the green in the shadows is from all the light bouncing off the green environment. This is a classic presentation that any camera would record as there is alot of green bouncing of that grass. Been rocking the Monstro for nearly a year and not noticed a green tint in the shadows. I totally agree with you on point two through to five. Also agree ND filters in the age of 1600asa cameras is a total pain and stacking ND or any multiple glass in front of a lens is a good way of softening your image. Check out the Kippertie solution. I ordered one of these the second I saw it.
 
David,


graded the images to bring up the mids and to bring out the "flushness", if that a word, in the skin. However it gave the skintones a "red bias" on the "Vectorscope"


grade_1.jpg


grade_2.jpg


grade_3.jpg


grade_4.jpg
 
Tom Gleeson said:
David,

To my eye in these images the green in the shadows is from all the light bouncing off the green environment. This is a classic presentation that any camera would record as there is alot of green bouncing of that grass. Been rocking the Monstro for nearly a year and not noticed a green tint in the shadows. I totally agree with you on point two through to five. Also agree ND filters in the age of 1600asa cameras is a total pain and stacking ND or any multiple glass in front of a lens is a good way of softening your image. Check out the Kippertie solution. I ordered one of these the second I saw it.
Click to expand...

I also did some other test not here, but the shadows seem to show green, maybe I'm just seeing it all the time now due to Helium and even the Dragon which I feel skewed that way... Anyway I'll post more when I can.

As far as the Relova, someone just told me it doesn't work with VV, unless the owner/creator wants to chime in and say something different... The other products, I couldn't see me changing OLPF ND filters onset. If the Relova does work with VV, I may order one when they're back in stock, but the PV LCND also looks promising.
 
rand thompson said:
David,


graded the images to bring up the mids and to bring out the "flushness", if that a word, in the skin. However it gave the skintones a "red bias" on the "Vectorscope"
Click to expand...


Rand,

Thanks for the grade. Maybe, I'm pushing too hard about the green and seeing something that's not there? I dunno, I want to do more tests.

Also could you post your color parade and vectorscope results?

Maybe there's a way to correct the image to where things sit just below color clipping... I probably clipped the green on the traffic lights of the camera. Anyway, I'm very happy with the look of it Luigi was right :-)

By the way, all the shots were --
ND 1.2
Some with Pola, can't remember which.
Close up face shot f/1.4 and the other f2.8
Most other shots around a f/5.6 and f/8 split
 
David,


I always make a point of deleting my grades after I grade anything so that I won't "reuse" them for anything else. It is also "3D Lut creator grading day", scopes are more transparent than in resolve. Let me try to regrade these in Resolve so that I can give you better looking scopes.
 
David,

From Reduser and the Kippertie website it would seem VV should all be good with the Revolva system although they do qualify there is there the possibility of some unusual flaring with "certain" lenses with hot sources just outside the edge of frame. I would assume a matte box would sort it out? Some deep rear element lenses may be an issue if you use any. Might be worth waiting until they start arriving in numbers and see how others go? You may have a long wait for the Panavision system which is very attractive but unlikely to ever be on sale outside of rentals.
 
David,


Resolve crashed on me so I did the grades in Redcine-X instead, however no Vectorscope unfortunately to judge skintone by. I kept your same Kelvin=5600 and Tint=-10.448 and just made a slight "CDL" Slope" Green and Blue adjustment and "saturation" increase. Also with some Iso changes between the grades and with the same luminance curve. I used a "Low Contrast/Soft" Ipp2 transform Lut on all of them


Screenshot_86.png



Screenshot_80.png



Screenshot_81.png



Screenshot_82.png



Screenshot_83.png



Screenshot_84.png
 
Last edited:
Here's a sample R3D grab from one of my Monstro bodies if you are looking to compare against anything:
http://www.phfx.com/temp/reduser/phfx_REDMonstroAndMe.zip

On a side note, if you are shooting on grass of course your ambient and reflected light will manifest as a greener tint specifically most visible in the negative side of your core shadows, but will contaminate anything within it's angle of incidence. I always have a 20x10 black duvy or 3 with me when shooting on grass to keep that bounce from happening unless I want it there.
 
David J. Buchanan said:
Rand,

Thanks for the grade. Maybe, I'm pushing too hard about the green and seeing something that's not there? I dunno, I want to do more tests.

Also could you post your color parade and vectorscope results?

Maybe there's a way to correct the image to where things sit just below color clipping... I probably clipped the green on the traffic lights of the camera. Anyway, I'm very happy with the look of it Luigi was right :-)

By the way, all the shots were --
ND 1.2
Some with Pola, can't remember which.
Close up face shot f/1.4 and the other f2.8
Most other shots around a f/5.6 and f/8 split
Click to expand...

I'm happy for you David. Yes, Monstro is something that goes well beyond any camera out there ... once you use it it's hard to get back to anything else including ALEXA.
To get back to Revolva, it works but under 35mm lenses it's impossible to use it has too much vignetting , including the RED Motion mount. It is a big break from fucking the external Nd if you then use wide-angle lenses make sure you have a mattebox that holds otherwise you have to replace that ehehhe too ..

have fun with the beast;)
 
Looks great Sergio! What IPP2 transform Lut did you use? Low/Soft or maybe Medium/Soft? Nd .3 or .6?
 
rand thompson said:
Looks great Sergio! What IPP2 transform Lut did you use? Low/Soft or maybe Medium/Soft? Nd .3 or .6?
Click to expand...

Thanks Rand! Since I did this quickly I don't remember very well, but I believe it was in some medium and soft and other medium and very soft, to get the full DR of the sky. It could be pushed even further which really was mind blowing.
 
It looks great Sergio! thanks for sharing these!
 
David J. Buchanan said:
Some testing conclusions on Monstro.

1. Still green in shadows, though easily correctable or should I say more correctable than Helium, at least to me.

2. Color fidelity is pretty damn impressive, except for extremely bright colors, esp green. I only tested IPP2 and not a flat image.

3. Cleanest cinema camera I've had my hands on. I have not tested Gemini. (Easily happy with ISO 3200 even with new calibration, and I'm not a fan of noise)

4. Resolution is there, and sharp, almost too sharp, except I like my images as crispy as they can get so it doesn't bother me.

5. Holy shit do the images pop when shooting wide open, even with wide lenses.

Wishes -- I still don't like the fact that I have to correct the green and seeing how it's easier with this sensor, I wish there was an updated Monstro color.

Not a RED problem, but I fucking hate stacking NDs and I wish there was something internal.

More thoughts to come with further testing.

R3Ds: https://drive.google.com/open?id=11qglgFkrAWHRM0tt42rvSGi7z2g8UB6F
Click to expand...
congrats man
 
luigivaltulini said:
To get back to Revolva, it works but under 35mm lenses it's impossible to use it has too much vignetting , including the RED Motion mount.
Click to expand...

Hiya Luigi. Curious, if we use Helium will Revolva work with 35mm lenses. I would think vignetting is only a prob with Monstro, or?
/Andreas
 
luigivaltulini said:
To get back to Revolva, it works but under 35mm lenses it's impossible to use it has too much vignetting )
Click to expand...

Luigi,

That is terrible news if this is true. The Revolva is next to useless for Monstro if lenses under a 35mm focal length vignette. What lenses were you using when you saw this vignetting? Were you using a PL Revolva and was it a production model or prototype? I would be a little suprised if this is true of the majority of wide lenses as Kippertie would surely have flagged this issue? Can you post images of this vignette?
 
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