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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Modular Dragon OLPF sneak peak

Bohdan Klos said:
When a middle OLPF is created that technically fits between the first release OLPF and second OLPF I would order that with the camera, and it would stay in place probably for all of the cameras life. I get the feeling choosing one OLPF and sticking with it will be common for many productions. Understandably less common for people who want to experiment.


I`m sure if the 3rd OLPF sits between the 2 we have just now it will be very very popular and common. I would bet if Red was to choose an single OLPF to come as standard this 3rd OLPF would likely be their choice.
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I agree. The middle OLPF will be the most popular for all around shooting.
 
Matt Ryan said:
I agree. The middle OLPF will be the most popular for all around shooting.
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I guess the original OLPF will be discontinued pretty quickly or perhaps not offered at all when the swappable mount is ready . So technically we might only have one option just now (that being the second olpf). Which is not a problem as other options are in the pipeline. But for me I`m hoping this reworking of the first OLPF comes soon as it is what I`m waiting for.

Who would choose the old olpf if there is the remote chance of the release of the so called mid point OLPF? I`m sure Red is aware of that.
 
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The problem with the original OLPF wasn't really that the highlight roll-off being weak (after all couldn't you just set it to 3200ISO and expose to protect the highlights?), it was that gnarly magenta halo around light sources that was the cause for most concern.

Honestly, I was under the impression that the modular OLPFs would be solely for creative choices (e.g. 1/8 low con or BPM or HBM style effects that you'll use on the entire shoot) and not necessarily to alleviate problems with the sensor/camera...
 
David Battistella said:
I do believe that RED need to really "innovate" in the replacement OLPF system. Four screws just aint going to cut it and four little screws could "limit" the amount people want to use this. If they can make this work perfectly and create a Quick release mechanism that places the OLPF into the correct position for back focus consistently, then the "swap" part becomes a no brainer.

If the swap is fiddling with four small screws every time, then it becomes a "change it during a break thing".

I don't want it to replace a matte box, but I sure would love to do a quick swap between sundown and a full night shoot (as a quick example). Four screws might make me want to just stick with what I got.
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I disagree, four screws is fine for olpf/filters. The way I see it, you would probably change olpf's going to a new scene if needed, which means you'll have a break to do that. If you had an ND inside, yes that would be a hassle, but you could put ND's on your Mattebox or Motion mount.
Changing an olpf in the middle of a scene or due to a specific shot would be very rare in my opinion.
 
David, thank you.

Maz, it is likely to cost an arm and be much cheaper to buy all creative filters as a set.

Bohdan Klos said:
. I get the feeling choosing one OLPF and sticking with it will be common for many productions. Understandably less common for people who want to experiment..
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Exactly why we need a selectable system, most people won't be able to handle the 4 screws constantly during filming. If you loose one what then. Maybe Red might like to incorporate this in the next camera
 
David Battistella said:
See, take a tool really sorta designed for stills and apply it to motion. Perfect. I like that kind of evolution. Same will happen with OLPF. Starts as a way to offer low light sensitivity, turns into a world of new options for people who make images (if it indeed goes that way).

I do believe that RED need to really "innovate" in the replacement OLPF system. Four screws just aint going to cut it and four little screws could "limit" the amount people want to use this. If they can make this work perfectly and create a Quick release mechanism that places the OLPF into the correct position for back focus consistently, then the "swap" part becomes a no brainer.

If the swap is fiddling with four small screws every time, then it becomes a "change it during a break thing".

I don't want it to replace a matte box, but I sure would love to do a quick swap between sundown and a full night shoot (as a quick example). Four screws might make me want to just stick with what I got.

Battistella
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When you hava a sun set or streets with bright streetlights the old olpf is useless.......Only very cotrolled sets in low light are oke with the old olpf. So we better off if Red can make the DEB in the camera and we are on set already at the best!

New Showreel at www.camlight.nl
 
Nawaf Alsabhan said:
I disagree, four screws is fine for olpf/filters. The way I see it, you would probably change olpf's going to a new scene if needed, which means you'll have a break to do that. If you had an ND inside, yes that would be a hassle, but you could put ND's on your Mattebox or Motion mount.
Changing an olpf in the middle of a scene or due to a specific shot would be very rare in my opinion.
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My personal thought on this is that it's will be a rare swap. Since the thread is evolving into creating a set of wide ranging OLPF for many situations, and it might be something changed out more often than "rarely", then an in the field quick release system might be better than changing out four screws with a mag light between your front teeth.

Get what I mean?

Battistella
 
Robert Berger said:
When you hava a sun set or streets with bright streetlights the old olpf is useless.......Only very cotrolled sets in low light are oke with the old olpf. So we better off if Red can make the DEB in the camera and we are on set already at the best!

New Showreel at www.camlight.nl
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not sure. Deb might be OLPF specific. Ie: if you are on old OLPF you might not need DEB at all. If you need it to clean something up with new OLPF, then you turn it on in post. It's another good reason to have it in the software because there will be cases when you want it off or the option to turn it off. You won't need the D.ragon E.nhanced B.lacks on every shot or situation.



Battistella
 
I still wonder if this is applicable to the Epic MX as well? I mean, an OLPF in different versions that's specific for that sensor.
 
Les disappeared. I wonder..
 
Christoffer Glans said:
I still wonder if this is applicable to the Epic MX as well? I mean, an OLPF in different versions that's specific for that sensor.
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While various OLPFs can be made for Mysterium-X there's a few things to keep in mind. Dragon has a whole new design in terms of the lens port, sensor box, OLPF dwelling. Mysterium-X has a completely different thing going on in there and it wouldn't be optimized for this Modular OLPF Pack. Jarred has mentioned earlier that with Mysterium-X something 3rd party and not approved by Red will void your warrantee.

There's all sorts of things that can damage a sensor and I have seen a few MXs out there with people who shoot with no OLPF, this I really don't recommend for general shooting conditions. Aliasing and Moire are very real issues.

If this was to happen for Mysterium-X they would need to be designed for the pixel pitch and unique properties that the sensor particularly has. As well as manufacturing some easier method of popping them in and out with voiding the warrantee. Anything is possible, but in it's current state it's not designed for user swap-ability in MX.
 
Phil Holland said:
What John said.

We live in an era where some manufacturers charge us for firmware updates that add features to the camera for features that are already in the camera. Red luckily doesn't believe in that. And also luckily they are focused on making things better all the time. That's what I see though. That's why I've invested my dough into this system.
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Totally agree Phil n' John
 
Red users that did the 'flare guard' baffle fix have removed the tamper tape with full authorization from Red, so in that case it should not be an issue.
The OLPF design of the Dragon actually makes it harder to work with than the MX, which simply had a press in pliable frame that holds the glass filter.
Both cameras have elegant swappable filter swapping design possibilities however. Using a good AR coated protection clear glass as the surface closest to the sensor, and stays put, would permit field swapping without concern of dust entering the sensor area. I use a 2 glass solution now ( one IR and one plain ) and have no reflection issues even though there are 4 air to glass surfaces involved. The 'stock' OLPF has 2 surfaces as the IR and OLPF are cemented together.
I enjoy much sharper images and the trade-off for rare aliasing is totally worth it.
There is a reason that most demo materials for UHD TV sets are not shot on stock MX sensors. Too fuzzy and post sharpening is just a cop out. Looks OK from a distance.
But many shooters do not desire the sharp look and prefer the 4k scanned 35mm film level of sharpness that is the standard. I prefer the 65mm detail level personally, but I am not shooting models either.

Phil Holland said:
While various OLPFs can be made for Mysterium-X there's a few things to keep in mind. Dragon has a whole new design in terms of the lens port, sensor box, OLPF dwelling. Mysterium-X has a completely different thing going on in there and it wouldn't be optimized for this Modular OLPF Pack. Jarred has mentioned earlier that with Mysterium-X something 3rd party and not approved by Red will void your warrantee.

There's all sorts of things that can damage a sensor and I have seen a few MXs out there with people who shoot with no OLPF, this I really don't recommend for general shooting conditions. Aliasing and Moire are very real issues.

If this was to happen for Mysterium-X they would need to be designed for the pixel pitch and unique properties that the sensor particularly has. As well as manufacturing some easier method of popping them in and out with voiding the warrantee. Anything is possible, but in it's current state it's not designed for user swap-ability in MX.
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@les - I think what Jarred was stating in the concept that it would void your warrantee is that if something was damaged. All of the content I've shot for UHD display manufacturers that begin with the letter S and L have all utilized the Epic MX with OLPF left in. Same for Dragon now. It's what I'm currently shooting.
 
Phil, that would be fair : If the user does something to the sensor because of the OLPF kit ( such as scratching it, soiling it , dropping debris inside the camera ,strips a screw, etc ) then the warranty is voided. But if a user has a 3rd party OLPF kit and the camera electronics fails in some way, say the compression chips, or the sensor develops a bad column that won't black shade out ( happened to me ) , it does not void the warranty.
I would hope it's the latter case.
 
Les Dittert said:
Phil, that would be fair : If the user does something to the sensor because of the OLPF kit ( such as scratching it, soiling it , dropping debris inside the camera ,strips a screw, etc ) then the warranty is voided. But if a user has a 3rd party OLPF kit and the camera electronics fails in some way, say the compression chips, or the sensor develops a bad column that won't black shade out ( happened to me ) , it does not void the warranty.
I would hope it's the latter case.
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There are still MXs out there in warranty? '-)
 
I really like where this is going !
This opens a lot of possibiities. ND would be really useful, and low con or diffusion might bring interesting results too. And why not more "arty" filters...
Opening it to filter companies would be very cool too.

Can't wait to see what will be available !

I might have missed that answer in this long thread, but until now we had to send our camera back to change the old OLPF for the new one, because the camera firmware needed to be tweaked for the new OLPF. So, what changed ? Are you saying it's the same firmware for any OLPF that will be made ? That's great news too ! Glad I waited :)

Jarred Land said:
Its not that simple.. the new OLPF isnt just an ND that shifts the bottom to the top. So you can't get the best parts of every filter in one filter with no penalty.

That said.. we already plan on making one that lands somewhere in the middle. And I really do like the Low-Con option that people are discussing, but that is going to take some time.

The options really start to open up as we open this option up to both individuals like John Marchant that have their own unique take as well as to the big filter companies to make modules as they may.
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Les Dittert said:
Phil, that would be fair : If the user does something to the sensor because of the OLPF kit ( such as scratching it, soiling it , dropping debris inside the camera ,strips a screw, etc ) then the warranty is voided. But if a user has a 3rd party OLPF kit and the camera electronics fails in some way, say the compression chips, or the sensor develops a bad column that won't black shade out ( happened to me ) , it does not void the warranty.
I would hope it's the latter case.
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Les, everything old is new again... just different.

When I was a kid everyone was souping up their cars. Headers, dual quad carbs or 3 deuces, 4:11 gears in the rear end of the power train, stroked and bored engine block.

Ford, Chevy, Dodge didn't sanction these changes and those that made these modifications to a car in warranty had their warranty voided. But secretly Ford, Chevy, Dodge were quite proud when their brand of modified would take home the trophy from a drag race.

Today's version of the car modifiers are people like you, and you and others who "soup-up" their tech are just carrying on the traditions of the past, just using different tools.

SALUT!
 
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