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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Misleading Posts

M

Mitch Gross

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It's come to my attention that a number of small manufacturers have been planting false testimonials on REDuser. A post will appear to the effect of "I just bought the new X Widget and it's really great." It will then go on about how it can be used and how great a deal it is. Sometimes the posts are by actual end users. Sometimes they are by company reps. or distributors who are pretending they are end users. Sometimes they are by end users who get the equipment for free in a handshake deal with the manufacturer.

This is known as Viral Marketing. I'd like all to know that Abel Cine Tech does not participate in this form of marketing. I am who I am and I have always tried to be very upfront as to where I'm coming from. We believe the products we represent speak for themselves. If you ever see someone posting positive comments about a tripod, mattebox or some other item we sell, I would hope that it would be understood that this was the choice of that end user without any false prompting by us.

Certainly we have provided some testing prototypes and demo samples to some people, often to get feedback for our own development purposes. In these pre-release cases the understanding is if there's something wrong please tell us so that we can work on improving it, and if you like it then feel free to tell anyone when the time becomes appropriate.

Integrity and reputation are important to us. So is simple honesty. It's easy to plant stuff on a forum but this manner of doing so is not respectable to us. I would caution REDusers out there to take sudden testimonials from brand new members with a grain of salt. Take mine with a grain of salt if you wish; it's my job to earn your respect.
 
Thank you for your advice Mitch..well said
 
Now if you do want someone to say nice things about your equipment, I'll always ready to hand out my shipping address..

:D

But well said, its almost exactly like resellerratings, companies put up fake "Very Satisfied" comments
 
Thanks for the heads up. But I have just a comment.
I have a completely different understanding of the term, "viral marketing", rather as the distribution of marketing material in a manner different than the traditional sales and marketing channels. In viral marketing the sender is usually explicit, in that they makes themselves known; that there is a clear indication that what you are viewing is a piece of marketing material.

I would use the term "shitty business ethics" for what you described.

Oh, and by the way... I just bought a brand new ... oh, well... fuckit :err:
 
There are many forms of viral marketing, some of them quite legitimate and upfront. But much of what is termed viral is "hidden" advertising, such as hiring attractive young women to go to popular bars and clubs and all order the same new drink combo, thereby lending an air of hipness and legitimacy to the product. And yes, this is going on all the time.

(Does using the word "hipness" in a sentence automatically render me utterly un-hip?)
 
Just wanted to note that I have nothing against the products advertized; I just don't like the way they're promoting them. I know of a couple of products that I actually like and consider worthwhile items that I personally know were promoted this way here in the last year and it just really rubbed me the wrong way.
 
Perhaps I shouldn't say anything good about my experiences with AbelCine? I don't want to be mistaken for a "viral marketer".

Seriously, I wonder which products and companies you're talking about. I don't expect you to answer, but I'm not sure who you mean.

In any case, I have had good purchasing experiences with AbelCine. There, I said it!

Matthew Verkler
 
Mitch - any posts you think are going to far or taking advantage of Reduser - ping me and a link via email. I'll check it out. I have the power to MODERATE.
 
Thanks, Mitch. As much as we try to make it something different, REDuser is perpetually an internet forum at some level. One must keep their bullshit detector set to "shake 'n bake".
 
I'm shocked and upset to learn that this was going on...and that I never had the opportunity to score overpriced accessories just to shill online! ;-) Sheesh, I shill for products I like all the time online and haven't even been offered discounts.

Anyways, Mitch, I agree, it is sketch. Why can't they just be honest? For instance, "Brand name XY just sent me their great shoulder mount to test out and I LOVE it..."
 
Another point of view

Another point of view

I'm going to offer up another point of view. We need to be careful speaking in general terms. There are some very respectful and professional companies on here that do what Mitch is speaking of in one way or another cause that's one of the ways it's done.

A good example is when a vendor sends stuff to Offhollywood for him to try out. The vendor has a hope that Mark and the guys will like what they sent and create some buzz. Right now hundreds of vendors are trading equipment to show at each other's booths at NAB in the hopes people will see and talk about the stuff.

I make product focus, installation, and operation videos for various vendors online, and I make no bones about talking up these products for two reasons: 1: Cause they are very good, and 2: Cause that's what I do.

I don't think there's much of a problem here unless the product is completely misrepresented or is a SCAM. But if someone wants to talk up something they are using, either cause they love it, or they were just given one, then that's their right.

We're all adults here, and a lot of us are film makers, which means we don't listen to ANYONE!!! :) Seriously, we'll protect each other from bad products or dishonest companies (We all do it daily, and we a pretty brutal bunch at times, ask Erik, or Curt) but I think general warnings about a popular form of advertising could be a little risky.

Jay

If someone has a SPECIFIC problem with a company, I say call out that company. We do it all the time on here. Mitch, being who he is, can't do that. Therefore I would suggest that this may not be a subject matter that a vendor should get into, it's more of a customer thing. If Mitch were to bad mouth a company or product that could be a little dangerous given his position, but if one of us sees something we don't like, we can say whatever we want!

Let's face it.. Mitch just loves us too damn much.. Who can blame him, we're wonderful people!!! :)
 
Jay A. Kelley said:
A good example is when a vendor sends stuff to Offhollywood for him to try out.
Click to expand...

I agree.

There's a pretty thin line around here between the truth, hype, hope and pure BS. I'd argue almost every company here has had a toe on more than one of those paths. Sometimes for the better and sometimes I believe to disrupt the marketplace one way or another.

Marketing ain't pretty. Keep fresh batteries in your BS Detector.
 
Welcome to the internet.

This generally comes under the banner of SEO.

Whole companies are devoted to generating this stuff.
 
Jay A. Kelley said:
A good example is when a vendor sends stuff to Offhollywood for him to try out. The vendor has a hope that Mark and the guys will like what they sent and create some buzz. Right now hundreds of vendors are trading equipment to show at each other's booths at NAB in the hopes people will see and talk about the stuff.
Click to expand...

For the record, we (Offhollywood) do work very hard to get our hands on stuff before it get's released. We also work hard to actively alpha and beta test products for MANY companies - and provide them feedback (more than they want most of time) - and we don't get paid for this.

We do it because it's what keeps us on the edge - it helps us to know what coming up next - what's cool - what's not. It builds relationships. It's a HUGE time investment. There are many nights I power up my laptop in bed after my wife & sons fall asleep to test some buggy, broken piece of new "exciting software" - and I wonder what the hell I am doing.

One of the main reasons my blog hasn't been updated in forever is that I am personally buried in testing stuff prior to NAB in addition to the construction madness happening at Offhollywood and active jobs.

Most of the exciting stuff is usually under NDA agreements. When it's not - If I'm excited about - I post about it here. If my posts come off as "too enthusiastic" - or seem and feel like a viral add - someone please email me and I'll stop. Folks that know me .. know I can be a little "passionate" at times -

But Offhollywood doesn't sell stuff like Abel. We provide services and produce. We base these services on technology and relationships.

We ARE making an exception here with respect to sales - for a single piece of software that I think is so special - that I bartered our feedback, consulting and testing for the exclusive US rights to sell - but it's a very specialized application - and my agenda is not to make money on the product, but rather get all of the features I want inside it - and cover the costs of the time devoted to R&D. I'm letting the cat out of the bag next week on that -

Anyway, just wanted to post some kind of response since "Offhollywood" was being thrown around as an example in a thread called "misleading posts".

I sincerely hope folks do not find my posts ... misleading ... because ... I do really care, and I enjoy sharing information on stuff that gets my motor runnin' ...
 
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