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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

MFF-2, FF-4, FF-5, Shoot35 R3 - Help me decide!

Clayton Burkhart said:
Perhaps you are right, My apologies in advance.
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No sweat man. Your point is well taken though, new products should generally be taken with a grain of salt. Look at the Redrock Microremote. At first buggy, now seems to be coming into it's own. Even the Dragon has gone through some learning curves.

I personally decided not to wait and just got the Shoot 35, because of the discount. As you say, who knows when other products may come to market, and I personally decided it was better to have something now!

best
 
Clayton Burkhart said:
I would never, ever recommend an as yet unseen product which is first generation to anyone. Frankly, I think that there is a heck of a lot of MARKETING and fishing for clients for BT going on here and I find it troubling and unethical and I wish to hell that the folks that are doing it would knock it off. How does Matt know that this product is good or not?

With a new product line there will always be bugs and design issues to work out. Witness the changes BT has already made with their old Strummer vs.new DNA line. I have seen this kind of thing with reputable names too like O'Connor, Denz, Elements Technica, etc. If you are buying long term, big money, forget first generaton anything!
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I will re-quote myself because apparently you only wish to see some devious intentions. As far as testing goes, maybe you should see what I had to say in the TiltaMax group buy thread: http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?115360-Checking-interest-for-TiltaMax-3-Channel-Wireless-FI-Z-System-Group-Buy&p=1353778&viewfull=1#post1353778
I'm not here to screw anyone and I only promote products I believe in.

Matt Ryan said:
I have used the O-Focus and CFF-1 from O'Connor and to be honest I wont use them again. We had quite a bit of backlash with the CFF-1. The Arri units are nice but way overpriced. For me, I'm waiting for Bright Tangerine to release theirs before I make my final decision. I might not end up going that route but it's worth comparing before making the leap.
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I am in no way paid or given free anything to “market” and “fish” as you put it for Bright Tangerine. You seem to show up in every thread mentioning Bright Tangerine and finding a way to negatively troll them. I am one of their first customers (I believe I was order #2 right behing Curt Pair at NAB 2013) and honestly feel their products are superior to anything else available. You probably haven’t even used one yourself.

You mention the Version 1 of the Strummer was a bust in some way? It has features beyond what anyone else was doing or had ever done. I asked Andy why he released the Strummer DNA when the Strummer was already solid and his response was, “I’m always looking to improve things.” "I found a way to make it lighter." Those who bought the original could pay a nominal fee to upgrade their unit to a DNA, which is similar to REDs approach rather than that of other companies who make you buy a new unit.

You are making a lot of assumptions that are inaccurate. I did get a hands on with a prototype of the follow focus. In saying that, Andy was still making changes so the final unit will be different.

I do not get anything for “promoting” BT and I don’t know why you can’t understand that. If I believe in something I back it. End of story. I do the same for RED and SmallHD. I wish you would give the negativity a break. I do not have some hidden malicious agenda.
 
Thanks Matt, don't let this discourage you from talking about the products you believe in or are interested in. I'm glad that you pointed me towards BT. Regardless of whether they make a FF for me, I'm happy to see such a cool company springing up. This FF is for me and I'm not in a huge rush. So I'll either be kicking myself for missing the Shoot35 deal or I'll kick myself for missing what BT has to offer :) Who knows, in the end I may end up with a FF-4. One thing that would steer me towards BT would be nice support for different gear ratios or the same quality for significantly less money.
 
To be honest I've been eyeing the Tilta FF-T04 for a year now. Great price and great features, but I want to test it before I make my decision. Basically if the BT is solid and matches or exceeds the Tilta in design and features, then I'd go that route because they are a company I trust and they take care of their customers. Unfortunately Tilta is in China so not sure how repairs, etc. are handled. But like I said, gotta test them first before making a decision.
 
I second that. BT really takes care of their customers. And Andy is truly passionate about making great tools for filmmakers.
 
Matt Ryan said:
I will re-quote myself because apparently you only wish to see some devious intentions. As far as testing goes, maybe you should see what I had to say in the TiltaMax group buy thread: http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?115360-Checking-interest-for-TiltaMax-3-Channel-Wireless-FI-Z-System-Group-Buy&p=1353778&viewfull=1#post1353778
I'm not here to screw anyone and I only promote products I believe in.



I am in no way paid or given free anything to “market” and “fish” as you put it for Bright Tangerine. You seem to show up in every thread mentioning Bright Tangerine and finding a way to negatively troll them. I am one of their first customers (I believe I was order #2 right behing Curt Pair at NAB 2013) and honestly feel their products are superior to anything else available. You probably haven’t even used one yourself.

You mention the Version 1 of the Strummer was a bust in some way? It has features beyond what anyone else was doing or had ever done. I asked Andy why he released the Strummer DNA when the Strummer was already solid and his response was, “I’m always looking to improve things.” "I found a way to make it lighter." Those who bought the original could pay a nominal fee to upgrade their unit to a DNA, which is similar to REDs approach rather than that of other companies who make you buy a new unit.

You are making a lot of assumptions that are inaccurate. I did get a hands on with a prototype of the follow focus. In saying that, Andy was still making changes so the final unit will be different.

I do not get anything for “promoting” BT and I don’t know why you can’t understand that. If I believe in something I back it. End of story. I do the same for RED and SmallHD. I wish you would give the negativity a break. I do not have some hidden malicious agenda.
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Gee Matt, sorry if I rustled your feathers. I did however, apologize in advance. Guess there was just something in your posts which always gives off the impression that you are in some kind of priviliged relationship to them, whether that might be the case or not. (Like having advanced access to a follow focus for instance.)
It could also be that even after I clearly stated in a thread several criteria by which BT didn't meet my needs, I continued to receive messages from several members, "Buy a BT, Buy a BT". This is very tiring.

By the way, I have also tried the strummer as a loaner on a recent shoot and at the time I felt it was too large and over engineered. Nor did I see a great deal of enthusiasm over it on the floor of a recent trade show. It is of no surprise to me that it came down in weight and profile. I think it had too. However, buying a new product like this and watching it replaced so quickly after also means that generally it takes an early hit in terms of it's resale value. This is no small thing when we are talking several thousand dollars of investment. All of which further reinforces my belief to walk softly when it comes to first generation products from a new manufacturer. Not to take anything away from Andy either...
 
Scott Pultz said:
Hello,

I am in the market for my first follow focus. I want to start with something quality that will last me a very long time rather than buying something lousy and wanting to upgrade later. I have been lucky enough to do this with tripods and such and I'm happy that I did.

Right now my most used lenses are DSLR style:

Canon 24-70 F2.8 II
Canon 70-200 F2.8 IS II
Sigma 50mm Art or Otus 55mm (deciding soon)
Otus 85mm (planned in the future)

So one thing that I'm worried about is that the Canon/Sigma lenses are relatively short throw compared to the Zeiss. Maybe this can be dealt with with lens gear sizes?

The follow focuses listed in my title are on my short list. Arri being expensive and Shoot35 being cheaper but apparently very high quality. Sorry for being such a NOOB but I'm having trouble deciding especially between the Arri units. If I do go with Arri, I plan on renting one first.

Obviously I want something with smooth action and no play. My Rokinon lenses have a tiny bit of play in them which drives me crazy compared to the Otus that I have rented.

So for those of you experienced in this area, I am very grateful for your help.

Thanks,

Scott
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im a photographer that uses canon lenses for motion stuff. i had hired a arri ff1, and they are nice, but i ended up buying an occonor o-focus. it works really well with the ratio with the canon lenses and the o-ring gear. i tend to focus myself on some stuff- then need to quickly change for the camera assist to focus- and this is easy with the o-focus- you just move the hand wheel from one side to the other. the arri requires removal to do anything like this. if you have both the hand wheels (which i don't), then you have access to both sides.

the only negative with the conner is that i find all the edges really sharp- hard on you hands/fingers sometimes- especially in cold conditions.

paul
 
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Clayton Burkhart said:
Gee Matt, sorry if I rustled your feathers. I did however, apologize in advance. Guess there was just something in your posts which always gives off the impression that you are in some kind of priviliged relationship to them, whether that might be the case or not. (Like having advanced access to a follow focus for instance)
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How is early hands on any different than what every other company does? RED gave prototype Dragons to certain users for testing and posting purposes. Sony does the same as does Arri. Same goes for pretty much every company there is. It's called outside testing, trial runs and feedback. It's extremely silly and just goes to show your dislike of the BT to single them out.

You did apologize, however, your rant before that was pretty ridiculous.
 
For what its worth, I have been using the Cinevate Durus follow focus for about 4+ years now. I used to do some work with the MacGroup (Profoto, Cinevate, Pocketwizard, Tenba etc) so they gave me a great deal on it. After using it for all this time, if I had to pay full price for it, I would. Great piece of kit... Single rod mount, zero lash, and reversible gear. Its built like a tank but super smooth. Its only one sided, so if you need your AC to pull from the other side, this is not the FF for you. Other than that, I have found NOTHING wrong with it over the years.

Regarding Bright Tangerine- I can attest to Rob and the rest of the crew being killer. I happened to run into them when they were staying in Redondo Beach post- NAB and you can tell they really take pride in their product. They made sure that my new Viv was 110% proper, swapping out set screws that did not meet their level of quality, demoing the unit and creating an open line of communication going forward. I love companies that actually listen to their users... I doubt any of the big guys would ever give me a demo like that. The Viv is an amazing matte box that gives no vignetting at 14mm with my CN-Es at full 5k. I haven't seen any other matte boxes out there that do that. :)

 

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Depends on how much you want to spend. I've owned FF4, O'Connor, Chrosziel Mini, Red Rock. I've used Zacuto, Genus, Arri MFF1/2 and a bunch of others. For studio use with an AC, FF4 is hands down my favorite. Simple to use, fast to set up, rock solid build and take a bit of abuse. AC's love it - which is most important because they're the ones who actually have to use it. For run and gun, small crew work, my all time favorite was the Chrosziel mini. Best dampening, virtually no play, ultra precise and simple to use. Far more precise than all the other single sided "mini" FF's (MFF1, Zacuto, etc). Unfortunately neither FF4 or Chrosz are cheap. I got my Chroiz on the used market almost new for 30% off list. My FF4 after a couple years of heavy use sold for 80 cents on the dollar.

As for the bargain units, stay away from RedRock. Cheap materials. POA design. Genus is quite good for the price. Well machined. Little play and decent features. Haven't used Shoot 35 but having owned SG Pro adaptors from them back in the day, their customer service is excellent despite being in the UK. They have a decent return policy as well. Zacuto has poor dampening and too much play. MFF1 I find over engineered for what it is. The action is nothing to write home about.

Regarding O'Connor, I owned a CFF1 for 48 hours. My AC's hated it so much, I had to return it. They (and many others since) found it overly engineered and involving one or two more motions to adjust than an FF4. The small and fiddly tie downs really irked them. It was well built but just lacked the simplicity of an FF4. Many here swear by OC. I'm in a position were I must defer to my AC's advice. They're consummate pros and if they can't perform 100 % it looks bad on me.

Whatever you decide on, get something with small gears to help compensate for the short DSLR lens throw.
 
This is really valuable information. Thank you!
 
Here's my review of the new Shoot35 V3 follow focus.

Overall I am extremely impressed with this thing. Build quality seems to be outstanding. There is zero play. The price is simply astonishing (IMO) for what you get.

Here are a few things that I don't care for:

First off, if you are in the USA you will get hit with a COD charge by UPS for presumably a tax of some sort. I ordered when they were 25% off and UPS wanted almost another $50 on top of what I paid. If I weren't so happy with the overall value I feel that I got I'd be more upset about this.

The hand wheels are a bit to small in diameter for me. If they were about 30% larger I would have prefered that.

There is no way to unscrew the 15mm clamps and replace them with 19mm like on the newer Arri's. If you are useing a big honkin zoom it can get pretty tight down there. (like on my RPZ 18-85) The 15mm clamping mechanism isn't super solid either. It's good just not great.

The second wheel doesn't clamp into position without a hex wrench. Off all my gripes about this thing this is my largest. I really hope that they fix this with version 4. I will say that it seems to stay put but I wish there were a lever to lock in into place.

However with all these negative things being said, I am extremely happy with my purchase. When I started playing with it I was really impressed with its overall build quality and features. The hard stops work great! It's able to be a two-sided FF. There is zero play! I honestly would still be recommending it at double the price that I paid for it. Oh, and for Nikkor owners, it's reversable too.

I've used a lot of units priced in this range and the Shoot35 blows all of them away IMO. I haven't used them all (like the Tilta) but for well under $1k you simply can't go wrong IMO. I've only used a really high-end Arri 4 once and it is clearly a better built unit, but it does lack hard stops.

I guess the true test will be how well it holds up over time. If it is built as well as it feels it should be just fine but who knows, only time will tell.

Overall, I'm very happy with my purchase. I can't imagine that there is a better "bang for your buck" option out there right now. In fact if this thing holds up well over time I'd ever prefer it to some of the more costly units for it's features alone, namely the hard stops vs the Arri 4. Again, time will tell but overall I'm very impressed by this FF.

Hope that helps everyone.
 
Troy Bakewell said:
Here's my review of the new Shoot35 V3 follow focus.

Overall I am extremely impressed with this thing. Build quality seems to be outstanding. There is zero play. The price is simply astonishing (IMO) for what you get.

Here are a few things that I don't care for:

First off, if you are in the USA you will get hit with a COD charge by UPS for presumably a tax of some sort. I ordered when they were 25% off and UPS wanted almost another $50 on top of what I paid. If I weren't so happy with the overall value I feel that I got I'd be more upset about this.

The hand wheels are a bit to small in diameter for me. If they were about 30% larger I would have prefered that.

There is no way to unscrew the 15mm clamps and replace them with 19mm like on the newer Arri's. If you are useing a big honkin zoom it can get pretty tight down there. (like on my RPZ 18-85) The 15mm clamping mechanism isn't super solid either. It's good just not great.

The second wheel doesn't clamp into position without a hex wrench. Off all my gripes about this thing this is my largest. I really hope that they fix this with version 4. I will say that it seems to stay put but I wish there were a lever to lock in into place.

However with all these negative things being said, I am extremely happy with my purchase. When I started playing with it I was really impressed with its overall build quality and features. The hard stops work great! It's able to be a two-sided FF. There is zero play! I honestly would still be recommending it at double the price that I paid for it. Oh, and for Nikkor owners, it's reversable too.

I've used a lot of units priced in this range and the Shoot35 blows all of them away IMO. I haven't used them all (like the Tilta) but for well under $1k you simply can't go wrong IMO. I've only used a really high-end Arri 4 once and it is clearly a better built unit, but it does lack hard stops.

I guess the true test will be how well it holds up over time. If it is built as well as it feels it should be just fine but who knows, only time will tell.

Overall, I'm very happy with my purchase. I can't imagine that there is a better "bang for your buck" option out there right now. In fact if this thing holds up well over time I'd ever prefer it to some of the more costly units for it's features alone, namely the hard stops vs the Arri 4. Again, time will tell but overall I'm very impressed by this FF.

Hope that helps everyone.
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Super helpful. Thanks Troy!!!
 
I have this follow focus and agree with you, although I am happy with the hand wheel size.

Troy Bakewell said:
Here's my review of the new Shoot35 V3 follow focus.

Overall I am extremely impressed with this thing. Build quality seems to be outstanding. There is zero play. The price is simply astonishing (IMO) for what you get.

Here are a few things that I don't care for:

First off, if you are in the USA you will get hit with a COD charge by UPS for presumably a tax of some sort. I ordered when they were 25% off and UPS wanted almost another $50 on top of what I paid. If I weren't so happy with the overall value I feel that I got I'd be more upset about this.

The hand wheels are a bit to small in diameter for me. If they were about 30% larger I would have prefered that.

There is no way to unscrew the 15mm clamps and replace them with 19mm like on the newer Arri's. If you are useing a big honkin zoom it can get pretty tight down there. (like on my RPZ 18-85) The 15mm clamping mechanism isn't super solid either. It's good just not great.

The second wheel doesn't clamp into position without a hex wrench. Off all my gripes about this thing this is my largest. I really hope that they fix this with version 4. I will say that it seems to stay put but I wish there were a lever to lock in into place.

However with all these negative things being said, I am extremely happy with my purchase. When I started playing with it I was really impressed with its overall build quality and features. The hard stops work great! It's able to be a two-sided FF. There is zero play! I honestly would still be recommending it at double the price that I paid for it. Oh, and for Nikkor owners, it's reversable too.

I've used a lot of units priced in this range and the Shoot35 blows all of them away IMO. I haven't used them all (like the Tilta) but for well under $1k you simply can't go wrong IMO. I've only used a really high-end Arri 4 once and it is clearly a better built unit, but it does lack hard stops.

I guess the true test will be how well it holds up over time. If it is built as well as it feels it should be just fine but who knows, only time will tell.

Overall, I'm very happy with my purchase. I can't imagine that there is a better "bang for your buck" option out there right now. In fact if this thing holds up well over time I'd ever prefer it to some of the more costly units for it's features alone, namely the hard stops vs the Arri 4. Again, time will tell but overall I'm very impressed by this FF.

Hope that helps everyone.
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"The 15mm clamping mechanism isn't super solid either"

Can you elaborate here please?
 
Ned Wilson said:
Regarding O'Connor, I owned a CFF1 for 48 hours. My AC's hated it so much, I had to return it. They (and many others since) found it overly engineered and involving one or two more motions to adjust than an FF4. The small and fiddly tie downs really irked them. It was well built but just lacked the simplicity of an FF4. Many here swear by OC. I'm in a position were I must defer to my AC's advice. They're consummate pros and if they can't perform 100 % it looks bad on me.
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That's been my experience as well. The FF4 is a "familiar handshake" for many, even over the 5. I did end up purchasing an OConnor CFF-1 after about 3 months of really mulling it over. I still own my Redrock Micro V.2 and Follow Focus|blue, but the CFF-1 is what I have been using for a long while now and I'm pretty damn happy with it. I've literally at this point used it on most lenses out there too. You can make it do anything you want in terms of rigging and everything is adjustable. Never had any backlash issues on the unit, but I'll agree it's a bit "knobby". Initially I was really critical of the rod support clamp "jingle bolts", but I've found them to be useful when locking down. Been happy, though it wasn't cheap. I pretty much don't use 15mm rods anymore in my world and that's why I needed this solution overall. I do feel like the CFF-1 will last me forever if I don't run it over with my truck.

My RRM V.2 I can't say the same about and I've nearly destroyed it with just "typical use". The blue unit is actually leagues beyond that offering and is still going strong.

Good to hear nice things about the new Shoot35 FF. I have a few bits of their kit I'm happy with.

Curious to see what Bright Tangerine has in store. Element Technica had a prototype last year, but I think that product might be a secondary thought at this point. It was neat though.
 
Scott

When you clamp it on 15mm rails and snug it up it still seems to have a tiny bit of play. It doesn't seem to affect the operation at all but it does leave a slight feeling of sloppiness to the build quality is all.
 
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