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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

May Update... The month of Raven

Olly Meacock said:
Every week and month that ticks by does make you question the decision you made to buy a RED when there are other options out there available off the shelf.
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Especially after today's news.

I can see a company that's trying to keep a shit tonne of balls in the air and yes maybe a couple get dropped, but you know what, they will get there and at the end of the day when you get your new RED in hand and shout at speed for the first time it'll all be forgotten.
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They've dropped a LOT of balls, not just a few. It's just turning into a much less endearing experience than one would have hoped for, especially for those who ordered Scarlet-W outright, since that group has been getting the shaft from the outset along with the Raven folks who didn't switch. Those who switched are the only ones that haven't been shafted here. Those who ordered Scarlet-W outright are getting shafted twice.
 
Brent@RED said:
As I mentioned in my earlier thread, if you were allocated a SCARLET-W and have not taken delivery yet, the only option at this time is getting an EPIC DRAGON loaner. I am pretty sure we can accommodate anyone who was allocated over the last week or so and did not get their SCARLET-W with an EPIC...
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Tim Daust said:
Raven 2 Scarlet-w "switcher" here..
Allocated on April 19 and paid in full. same story, not shipping until earliest mid June?????
Getting the Epic Dragon loaner is a great option that not many companies would offer but when all the accessories are different it makes it pretty difficult to be realistic unless absolutely last resort.
even though my opinion wont matter, I think its really sketchy to allocate orders and take payment in full, then all of a sudden say you are stopping production and not shipping any further cameras out. I mean shouldn't you at least finish processing the orders that were allocated and paid for?

is it possible to suspect that a "problem" was discovered in the current builds of the Weapon and Scarlet-W? Maybe halting production was to minimize those customers who would be affected by known problems??? This type of explanation would at very least calm people who have paid in full and were patiently "waiting to ship"

still shocked about the epic loaner offer, but something just seems off about this situation. Its surely got to be more efficient to process the paid orders before switching ALL production over.. but hey.. you guys know what your doing. Good luck!
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Brent: I'm kind of an innocent bystander here in that I already have my Scarlet-W (and thank you).

But Tim does have a pretty good point - it doesn't make much sense to switch a production line (or in this case all of them) before completing the allocated AND Paid for orders unless there is some other factor - like running out of or finding a problem with some of the components needed. IMHO you ought to make a firm statement that this is or isn't the case - if for no other reason than to forestall the conspiracy theories. No one will hold it against you if you simply say "Hey, our foundry just sent us boxes of Raven sensors and none of the SW sensors we were supposed to get or whatever the issue might be" but it is bad if people feel that they are being fed some marketing spin, and that is what happens when it isn't clear and doesn't seem to make sense. (If it isn't a production issue, at least clarify that this is the choice you are making.)

As a manufacturer of third party accessory products I hear a fair amount of behind the scenes talk from owners of RED and other brands - that they would never post on these forums. I'm not saying you guys have actually done ANYTHING wrong here, simply that you should nip this in the bud before it becomes another thing - because ultimately it does affect us Red devotees. For example, I firmly believe my Scarlet-W is a better camera in virtually every way than any of the Alexas (even the supposed slight better DR and highlight retention to me is so close as to be mostly bulls--t bias more than anything because it so close as to be inconsequential) but there is an anti-RED bias out there due to some of the funkiness in the past and it affects us out here that want to shoot with or rent our Red cameras more. You guys have done an awful lot to overcome that but this has the potential to be one of those "here they go again" focal points - and it doesn't have to be that way.
 
Jason Han said:
This is unbelievable. Just got the call that my allocated, paid, Scarlet-W is now dis-allocated. WTF?? I really do think this is wrong in many ways, AT LEAST complete the allocated orders please... I've never seen anything like this. You can't just cancel people's allocations, I understand the situation with Raven's, but since I was told that my camera is looking to be shipped early this week prior, I had lots of shoots planned, BUDGETED assuming that I will be providing the camera. Now I was just told that I have no camera, and that the Epic Dragon loaner is not a guarantee, and most likely won't even have that. My shoot overseas starting May 13th involving lots of young filmmakers are now going to be FIRED due to the budget of rental. Dragon rental + accessories for multiple days/weeks means shoots cancelled, people fired, heart broken everywhere. Sigh
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No no no no..... if you have been allocated and already have paid, your order is somewhere in the process of being built (or upgraded) , tested and shipped. this applies to both Weapon Upgrades and Scarlet-Ws. Its not like we just threw everything that was already on the lines away for this Raven shift... that would make no sense at all.
 
Just wondering... What are the qualifications for the EPIC DRAGON loaners? I have a Scarlet-W timestamp on January 28, 2016
 
K. Agarwal said:
I would like to echo the sentiments of the other users. I understand that you guys are delivering a superb product that blows everything away, and I have followed each announcement and delay. Unfortunately, my clients are not as understanding. It feels like I'm taking the blame for issues that I have no control over, and people are losing faith in me because I gave them MY word that Red would deliver, I vouched for you guys. I'll be with Red through thick and thin because I truly love your products, enthusiasm, and transparency; I want to support this amazing team as they redefine what is possible in cinema.

This update puts me in a VERY difficult position.
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What did you tell your clients? If you promised them a camera you didn't have in hand YOU put yourself in a difficult position.
 
Jarred Land said:
No no no no..... if you have been allocated and already have paid, your order is somewhere in the process of being built (or upgraded) , tested and shipped. this applies to both Weapon Upgrades and Scarlet-Ws. Its not like we just threw everything that was already on the lines away for this Raven shift... that would make no sense at all.
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That's not what my rep told me. I was told last week that my camera was shipping early this week with almost certainty...and today I got the call that my allocation has been cancelled, and that I won't be receiving my camera until after the FULL HALT of Scarlet-W production (at least 30 days). I said that this can't possibly be happening and that allocated, paid orders should at least be fulfilled.... my rep basically said unfortunately that's not his decision and it's the higher ups that decide that. I really do hope you are right Jarred
 
Jason Han said:
That's not what my rep told me. I was told last week that my camera was shipping early this week with almost certainty...and today I got the call that my allocation has been cancelled, and that I won't be receiving my camera until after the FULL HALT of Scarlet-W production (at least 30 days). I said that this can't possibly be happening and that allocated, paid orders should at least be fulfilled.... my rep basically said unfortunately that's not his decision and it's the higher ups that decide that. I really do hope you are right Jarred
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Well seeing as he's basically the highest of higher ups, I think he could rectify the situation!
 
Jarred Land said:
No no no no..... if you have been allocated and already have paid, your order is somewhere in the process of being built (or upgraded) , tested and shipped. this applies to both Weapon Upgrades and Scarlet-Ws. Its not like we just threw everything that was already on the lines away for this Raven shift... that would make no sense at all.
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I just informed my rep of your post here as well as the other previous mentions that INDEED anyone who was allocated and PAID before this announcement will NOT be affected. Apparently none of the sales guys have been informed of this yet. Very confusing day in deed for all those involved ... thank you Jarred for clarifying again.
 
Jarred Land said:
No no no no..... if you have been allocated and already have paid, your order is somewhere in the process of being built (or upgraded) , tested and shipped. this applies to both Weapon Upgrades and Scarlet-Ws. Its not like we just threw everything that was already on the lines away for this Raven shift... that would make no sense at all.
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Thanks for taking this step a clarifyng the situation, this make more sense. I Meant if someone was Allocated and paid for their camera in full (Like myself 3 weeks ago, Just Last Week I was told my camera was ready to be shipped) the only thing that people could expect is to received the camera that was ordered. Hopefully all this misunderstanding will be resolved pretty soon.
 
it still just seems weird that this is happening in the first place. Why not just fulfill both and whatever pace is sustainable? Slow or not, at least you'd be fulfilling and showing progress on both sides.
 
Jason Han said:
That's not what my rep told me. I was told last week that my camera was shipping early this week with almost certainty...and today I got the call that my allocation has been cancelled, and that I won't be receiving my camera until after the FULL HALT of Scarlet-W production (at least 30 days). I said that this can't possibly be happening and that allocated, paid orders should at least be fulfilled.... my rep basically said unfortunately that's not his decision and it's the higher ups that decide that. I really do hope you are right Jarred
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Sorry for the confusion... Brent can go through and confirm all of you that have already paid and make sure my assumptions and the reality. My late night posts sometimes add confusion to not only you guys but to my own team as well so it takes a bit for us to get everything sorted and I do apologize if you received a call that might of been inaccurate.. that's my fault, not your reps.
 
Jason, I just checked and you are on the list. You are already allocated and you are paid up. You will be processed accordingly... Same goes for the rest of you with SCARLET-W and WEAPON orders in the same boat as Jason...

Plus, if your camera is in for upgrade at RED already, it will be processed and it not affected by Jarred's original post.
 
Josh Becker said:
it still just seems weird that this is happening in the first place. Why not just fulfill both and whatever pace is sustainable? Slow or not, at least you'd be fulfilling and showing progress on both sides.
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Because it is way way more efficient for all our lines to be making the same thing. This may seem like a weird thing to some of you but it's really how most big manufacturing works... they just never talk about it and you sit and wait and one day it seems like they go from super back-order into in stock and usually it stays that way.

the reality is if I didn't actually make this post... most of you probably wouldn't of noticed anything different except suddenly there were a lot more Ravens out in the world and there would a lot more Weapon/Scarlet-W people asking where there cameras are.

This all is not to far off of what happened last month, when we made an insane amount of Scarlet-W's and weapons at the expense of Ravens. I told you we were doing that, and a lot of Raven people were pissed just like right now a lot of Scarlet-W people are pissed. We raised the price of Raven to slow that down but that actually backfired a little.. because there was a whole shit ton of new orders that came in from people wanting to jump in before the price increase.

Michael Hastings said:
- like running out of or finding a problem with some of the components needed. IMHO you ought to make a firm statement that this is or isn't the case - if for no other reason than to forestall the conspiracy theories. No one will hold it against you if you simply say "Hey, our foundry just sent us boxes of Raven sensors and none of the SW sensors we were supposed to get or whatever the issue might be" but it is bad if people feel that they are being fed some marketing spin, and that is what happens when it isn't clear and doesn't seem to make sense. (If it isn't a production issue, at least clarify that this is the choice you are making.).
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There is no shortage conspiracy because part shortages are always true.... We run out of pretty much everything on a weekly ( if not daily) basis, You guys see this because I have been laid down what we are making as we go along. We run out of Displays and Media and Sensors and Glass and accessories sometimes (god forbid) even screws. That is part of demand planning and that's what happens when you make almost everything custom. We are pretty good at managing that fluctuation but none of that matters when we only have so many lines and can only build so many cameras per day and when things like this happens when we get way, way, way more orders than we planned.

As much as the Scarlet-W guys are upset right now.. the Raven guys have gotten the short end of the stick in allocations since we started shipping Ravens, specially the ones that didn't switch to Scarlet-Ws.
 
Great communication. Thank you.

If you don't mind me saying, it's great to see your own evolution...not only as 24/7 hard worker, but also as a leader.

Cheers.
 
Tim Daust said:
I just informed my rep of your post here as well as the other previous mentions that INDEED anyone who was allocated and PAID before this announcement will NOT be affected. Apparently none of the sales guys have been informed of this yet. Very confusing day in deed for all those involved ... thank you Jarred for clarifying again.
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Andrey Blanco said:
Thanks for taking this step a clarifyng the situation, this make more sense. I Meant if someone was Allocated and paid for their camera in full (Like myself 3 weeks ago, Just Last Week I was told my camera was ready to be shipped) the only thing that people could expect is to received the camera that was ordered. Hopefully all this misunderstanding will be resolved pretty soon.
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Like Jason, you are both all set. You will be processed…

Dane Henry said:
I hope my Rep knows this! :smiley::smiley::smiley: I got different info just a bit ago.

-dane
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Looking at the list, Dane, your camera is here at RED so will be in upgrade processing queue as we speak...
 
Last week I called my Rep and had a very frank conversation. What came out of that conversation was that I should switch to SW because I would have a better camera in my hands faster than the Raven I ordered. I was even told to pay right away because I was in the next allocation happening some time this week. Now there is money in an account thats not mine, tied up for 30+ days not bearing any interest, however small that might be...but worth mentioning, and now no true and reliable answer as to when i will see a camera body. I had a ridiculously early time stamp on Raven as well. I cant help feeling a little bit set up here. I have my MG and thats all well and good, but its really the basic biz practice here that has me a bit ruffled.
 
This makes it hard doing a lease deal. I put the lease in place trying to time it so the funds would be ready when the camera was. Looks like I put in place way too soon. Can't say the communication has been good, my leasing company's e-mails to Red have gone unanswered until today. In fact for some reason some small items were shipped and my credit card was charged when those items should have been part of the lease. Just makes more work for everybody. I have a Scarlet Dragon, so a delay in delivery doesn't stress me as far as quality of life, or revue stream, but have to say not impressed with the process. My rep I had is no longer with the company so perhaps that explains why my experience has been poor. Don't like to bitch, just giving honest feedback.
 
Bret Lyman said:
Last week I called my Rep and had a very frank conversation. What came out of that conversation was that I should switch to SW because I would have a better camera in my hands faster than the Raven I ordered. I was even told to pay right away because I was in the next allocation happening some time this week. Now there is money in an account thats not mine, tied up for 30+ days not bearing any interest, however small that might be...but worth mentioning, and now no true and reliable answer as to when i will see a camera body. I had a ridiculously early time stamp on Raven as well. I cant help feeling a little bit set up here. I have my MG and thats all well and good, but its really the basic biz practice here that has me a bit ruffled.
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Bret, if you switch back to RAVEN, you would be allocated this month. I would estimate your SCARLET-W would ship next month.
 
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